Paul Combs—The Art of Making a Difference | S4 E48

SPEAKER_02 0:00

With a lot of my career in life, I just kind of fall into situations. And cartooning was kind of the same way. It can be something as simple as reading an article in a magazine in one word and launch it to a dozen different visuals. But if you always try to focus on the positivity and realize that you have that target on the front that you want people to see and you want people to follow, and you want to be that inspiration in their life, all I'm doing is giving you a catalyst for conversation. And I love it when I get to see posts like this where people share the magazines open up at the kitchen table and everyone's talking about it. But I've said yes. And the benefits of what that has brought back to me, and maybe something I've touched someone else's life, has been a mess.

Voiceover 0:46

Welcome to Respond Resilience, along with my co-host Bonnie Rumoli, LCSW EMT. I'm David Dashinger. In this episode, we'll be speaking with Paul Combs. He's a fine artist, illustrator, cartoonist, and firefighter EMT. And we'll be speaking about firefighting, leadership, cartoons, and the art of making a difference. We invite you to like and subscribe. Our YouTube channel is Responder Resilience. We're on Facebook, Responder Wellness Think and Responder TV. LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and go to our website responderTV.com for past episodes and guest information. This episode is made possible by Strobes and More, a New England-based leading distributor, installer, and servicer of emergency vehicle equipment. Visit strobesandmore.com to sign up for special offers and receive 10% off your next order. This episode is made possible by the First Responder Center for Excellence. Discover more at FirstresponderCenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. We'll be right back to speak with Paul after this.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

In this family, more of us die by our own hands and by the hazards of the job. In this family, up to a quarter of 911 telecommunicators have symptoms of post-traumatic stress. In this family, our mental health and wellness are in crisis, while responders are quietly suffering.

Bonnie Rumilly 2:04

In this family, many struggle with job-related stress, burnout, trauma, disruption, substance, and relationship problems.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

In this family, we can help the government.

Bonnie Rumilly 2:16

With vital information and resources, resilient strategies, and success stories of overcoming the obstacles. In this family, don't worry.

Voiceover 2:27

Welcome to Respond to Resilience. We co-host retired Lieutenant David Dashinger, Dr. Stacey Raymond, and Bonnie Rimmely, LCSW EMTV. We're very pleased to welcome Paul Combs to Respond to Resilience. Paul is the editorial cartoonist for Fire Engineering magazine and the author of four books, an illustrator of the best-selling Sprinkles the Fire Dog and Sprinkles the Fire Dog 2, making a difference. Paul's a fine artist, illustrator, cartoonist, and firefighter EMT, and his work is published worldwide in newspapers, magazines, and books. Paul joined the fire service in 1995, and he's been a fire service instructor since 2000. He's now a retired lieutenant from the City of Bryan Fire Department in Ohio. He's also an FDIC presenter, keynoter, and hands-on training instructor, and a lot more. Paul, welcome to Respond to Resilience. Thank you for having me.

Bonnie Rumilly 3:25

It's great to have you, Paul. I'm listening to your list and wondering what you haven't done.

SPEAKER_05 3:29

I left a few things out, too.

Bonnie Rumilly 3:33

No, it it's really incredible. And um, David and I are really happy and humbled to have you here with us. So I really can't wait to oh, anytime. Uh well, we're really excited just to get into your situation now and your past. And how did you how did you learn how to meld your love for art with the fire service, with your career?

SPEAKER_02 3:56

You know, I've being an artist was never a question of what I was going to do. I mean, uh since I've been able to hold a crayon, uh, I've been an artist. I drew my first comic book when I was six years old. Uh so you know that that love of art has always been there. Uh, I fell into firefighting by mistake. Um, I was actually helping a buddy move a door from his uncle's house, who was a retired firefighter. And like any firefighter, he he had a lot of chotchkis on the wall and awards and everything. And I just asked the simple question of what's it like to be a fireman? And four hours later he had talked me into being one. And from the moment I walked into a firehouse, I knew that's where that that was home. It was everything. I mean, as an artist, we're we're sponges, we soak in everything around us. Uh, from everything from the sights, the sounds, the smells of a firehouse, it felt like home from the minute I walked in. Um, so you know, it would even though the the art career has always been there and it continues, uh, the fire service just kind of happened by happenchance. And uh it was it was just a it was one of those love at first sight kind of things. Um so, but you know, it was funny that I I dabbled again, uh I was I'm fine art trained. Uh I didn't get into cartooning until around 2004. So I was doing very serious, very uh museum type quality artwork. Um, and so that was kind of the first things I dabbled in with the fire service is cute little puppy dogs and helmets and you know, uh a lot of Dick Kramer type work. And he was he was one of the bigger artists of the time, you know. Um, so he was one of the first people that I kind of looked up to in that field. Uh so I was doing a lot of work like that. And uh with a lot of my career in life, um, things just kind of I just kind of fall into situations, and cartooning was kind of the same way. Um I was working with an ad agency who wanted me to do an editorial cartoon as a gag against another ad agency in Toledo, Ohio. And in the process of researching what editorial cartoons were, which is a lot of political, I fell in love with that craft because what I realized was with fine art, if I am commissioned to do a portrait of someone and you commission that same portrait for 10 different artists, you're gonna get 10 pretty close representations of that face. You do that with cartoonists, it's all over the board. And I fell in love with the spontaneity of what that craft is. Um, and so just in the research of doing that, I fell in love with editorial cartooning and I had already kind of followed politics. And six months later, I find myself as a staff editorial cartoonist at the Tampa uh Tribune. Um and then syndicated with uh Tribune Media Services out of Chicago, and all that was kind of a skyrocket ride. Uh, but what I didn't realize was that moving to Florida, I was out of the fire service. And I never realized how much I needed that in my life. So I would go up to one of the firehouses after uh work every day, and I would stop by and have coffee with the guys, and they brought me in, you know, and and we would always talk, and I would always ask how, you know, how do you fight fires in the heat of Florida? And they couldn't understand how we fight fires in the cold of the Great Lakes. You know, so those conversations were always always started, uh, but it kind of let me feel that I was a little bit at home. So the Fire Act was really big news at the time, and I did an editorial political cartoon on the Fire Act, and I took it to my editor at the Tampa Tribune, and she agreed to publish it, knowing that my history in the fire service. That afternoon, just by chance, I ran it by the editors of firehouse.com. And by that night, I had a contract to do cartoons on a regular basis, and my wife thought I was insane. I came out of my my little office there and I did a little happy dance in the living room, I think, you know. And because to me, I was back in the fire service, at least somehow. Yeah, um, but that's how the cartooning in the fire service started. Again, everything is just kind of that spontaneous combustion of, you know, I'm gonna try something, I do it, boom, let's go after it, you know.

Bonnie Rumilly 8:05

Um isn't it interesting how we have our plans in our life, we think we know what direction we're going in, and then everything just changes, and I'm a firm believer in what's meant to be for us is going to happen. Um, you know, it's similarly, I felt that way when David asked me to do a podcast. I thought, well, I've never done one, I don't know what to do, but I'm happy to learn and wing it. So you know, if you'd asked me five years ago, will we be doing this? No, right? So sometimes you get these interesting turns where you can use a part of yourself in another way that you really didn't know. And when you talk about your story, that makes me feel like that's what's happened to you.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Yeah, well, even though that you know, uh art has always been a part of my life, I just knew I was gonna be a rock star until I was 30. You know, but that was my goal. I was you know, I was gonna be in bands and I was, you know. Um, so what's your instrument, Paul? Uh guitar and bass. Yeah.

Voiceover 9:04

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Yeah, I've been playing uh good, you know, um music has been in my family since uh you know, I was I was young. Um I actually learned how to play guitar on my grandfather's uh old harmony rocket, you know. I don't know if you're familiar with those, but it's this beautiful old hollow body guitar, you know. So and I still have that guitar. Um, but uh yeah, so uh that journey has always kind of been there, and it's more of a hobby these days, but I just knew until I was 30 that I was going to be a rock star. And I got into the fire service late. I didn't get into the fire service until I was 29. Right. Um, and then that's when the whole focus was okay, the rock star thing, not gonna happen. Let's do the firefighting thing.

Voiceover 9:42

But I I have found parallels between uh being in a band and being in a on a fire scene. I I we go into it another time, but there's the I've I saw these parallels, you know, like like a like a jam, right? You show up with a bunch of guys never played together before necessarily, but you do have a you know a book of court charts or something, just like firefighters have SOPs and you know training that's uh pretty standardized, and show up and you know, get either do make music or get the fire put out, and uh you know, it's just a fun kind of there's a certain kind of improvisational, I guess, aspect to music and firefighting too, which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

So yeah, and then you know, just like that, you end up with those scenes, you know. For me, it was a it was a bar, you know. And I'm I'm I know this is going off script a little bit here, but honestly, it was right out of a scene of the blues brothers. The last time I played live was we went to a bar and it was called the Wildcat Bar in Kentucky, and I don't even think it's still there anymore. But uh we we pull up and the sign out front said cold beard bus ye teeth. Now that was the that was the that that's what they were the marquee. So we should have known that should have been the sign. We walk in, and literally the stage is covered in chicken fence wire.

Voiceover 10:53

Wow, and I mean so they really do throw bottles at the band.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Um we didn't get bottles thrown at us, but you know, oh my gosh, it was one of those where it was like halfway through that set. I'm like, I just this is not free.

Voiceover 11:08

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SPEAKER_02 12:43

Oh yeah, sure. Um, so like I said, you know, artists, I think by j by nature we're we're sponges. We soak in a lot around us, and it can be a big pain in the butt sometimes, but you know, because it's not a switch you can turn on and off when you want it. But um we soak in a lot. So to me, it can be something as simple as reading an article in a magazine in one word, can launch into a you know a dozen different visuals. Same thing with being listening to podcasts, uh being in a class, just being around the guys at the firehouse was a big inspiration. Um but to me, I mean, um I have four volumes of uh these books and they are filled with thumbnails, and this is how I take notes, even if I'm sitting in a class. Rarely will you see me taking line texts. Um, I'll be sketching out little thumbnails like this. Every cartoon I've drawn has come from one of these thumbnails. Um, and in a lot of it, that is my that is how I stay mentally healthy in a way that I have to get that stuff out when it's in there. Um, I keep a small sketch pad by my bed at night because if something hits me at three in the morning, it will drive me insane until I can get it out. So even if I just reach over in the middle of the night in the dark and scribble something down, it allows me to at least function as a normal human being and get some sleep. So I carry this book with me um everywhere we go. Uh my wife has learned that it's a it's it's an extra appendage that it goes with us on dates no matter where we go, because again, I have to be able to function as a normal human being. And that's so I cannot turn that on and off. So um my creative process starts with these little thumbnails, um, and that's whether it's a cartoon, an illustration, or a piece of fine art. And then from there, once I know that, and sometimes the thought comes before the visual, and vice versa. And that I will go back. I mean, I've got these dating back to 2004, and I will go back through these volumes at times, and I will see a visual that actually matches a topic today.

Voiceover 14:39

Yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Um, and then I can put that together, you know, and and and create a cartoon. So um that's a lot of how that starts. Uh, and I we can share some visuals later if you like on the whole creative process of it. Starts with that thumbnail, then it goes to a little bit bigger where I actually sketch it out. Um, I still love that old school fill of pen on paper. Um, so I still can draw a lot of the cartoons I do, even though now they're um all painted digitally. Uh so it's kind of that combination of of you know traditional and tech, you know, and and technology. But uh that's kind of where it goes. And you know, there's there's a lot of ingredients that go into that soup, but you know, that's kind of the gist of the creative process. Wow, incredible.

Bonnie Rumilly 15:21

Are you familiar with Dan Sundal's work in Canada? Absolutely. Yeah, okay, he does amazing work. He does, yeah. I mean, you both are to me on the same vein. And when we had him on the podcast, he was describing that catharsis, that therapeutic process that he has in getting the images out of his mind onto the paper. And you just said that. And you know, as a therapist, we try to get first responders to get their thoughts and feelings out in any way possible, right? And I think they classically think, well, I have to tell someone, but I encourage journaling or music or instrument playing or even art. And so I like the fact that you're making this feel tangible to your average person. You know, it doesn't have to be this beautiful framed piece that we're familiar with seeing when we think of art. It can be a journal that you just if you don't have the words for a situation, you can capture it that way. And I really think it's important for our viewers and listeners to hear that it can just be something so simple like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yeah, and you know, and I'm not a I'm not a therapist. I mean, I didn't even stay in on Holiday and Express last night, so I can't even pretend to know what I'm talking about in that field, but that is advice that I've given a lot of people. Uh, I actually have one of these books that I keep that my family knows to never look in. Okay. That is my release. There are there are images in there that they will never want to see.

SPEAKER_06 16:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

I have I am blessed to be able to have that ability to visualize that and to get it out to purge it in some way. So and I think the biggest aspect of that is to recognize it and name it. I don't try to hide it, I don't try to push it away, I don't try to stick it in a box and you know put it in a closet. I actually recognize that that is something that's bothering me, and I can put that down in something, get it out, recognize it, close the cover. I know it's there, it will always be there. Um, and so I've I've I've actually recommended that to a few people that have been struggling. Uh, and it doesn't have to be visual. Again, it can be like a journaling, something you just write down, something that you don't have to share with anyone.

Bonnie Rumilly 17:31

Well, I think that's incredible because you're taking it out of your brain and the act of putting it somewhere on paper, it takes it outside and makes it external. So there's a degree of separation now. So I think that's wonderful advice you're giving people.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yeah, you know, because I mean if we if you're in this field long enough, um, and and that is with firefighting, police, uh, EMT, uh nursing, whatever it may be, you're gonna see things over that career. Uh, they're gonna be things that, and and I always frame it like this that you know, we all have ghosts. Uh, I have been very fortunate, and maybe it is because I have that ability to visualize things and and kind of get them out of my system. Uh, but my ghosts are present, but they never haunt me. And I'm fortunate in that sense. That you know, I could be uh I did a cartoon on this, and I was sitting in a in a uh airport in Toronto and I had a layover, and I like a lot of firefighters, I'll wear a job shirt or something when I travel.

SPEAKER_06 18:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

And uh he just like, oh my god, you're a firefighter, you know. And he asked the one question I think we all hate what's the worst thing you've ever seen? Now he says this out of and I say ignorance, but he doesn't know it's just out of morbid curiosity to him that he doesn't know what type of ghost that stirs up. And the moment he asked, and I did the polite thing, I was like, you know, we see a lot of things, you know, it's like you know, we don't probably want to talk about it. But from that instance, my ghost traveled with me the rest of that trip because now I'm immediately back to those calls. Yeah, you know, so but again, I've recognized my ghosts, I know they're there. Um, and again, I'm fortunate that they don't haunt me. Um and in 30 years of doing this, uh I can say fortunate, but you know, uh that is always something in the back of my mind. It's when is when is something gonna happen that's gonna trigger another event like that? Um and that's when that's where this little black book comes in handy for me. Is that it, you know, even though it's it can be an idea, something funny, something you know that we can teach a lesson with, now I can do something that possibly could create a cartoon that maybe will help someone else.

Voiceover 19:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

And that's how I always kind of approach this.

Voiceover 19:46

Well, I'd love to jump from that thought um because your cartoons are so relatable. And um, you know, I think there's amazing detail that probably only people in the fire service can appreciate. Um, but you've you know you make certain aspects of it. Larger than life, and certainly your characters look larger than life. So it makes it powerful. And I think for people who are not readers per se, but um who are visual people, it's such an accessible way to kind of hear what your message is. Um and I also realized when I was looking, kind of doing research and looking at uh a number of your cartoons that it kind of had me looking at both sides of the situation, you know, not just the side that I would tend to take. Do you have an agenda on what you want people to or vision of what you want people to take away from your your art, or is it do you kind of leave it up to whatever their subjective experience is?

SPEAKER_02 20:35

No, you know, and and and I say this word loosely, there's a science to doing these type of cartoons. Uh just like you know, if you're reading a book, you're reading, you know, uh a page a certain way, you're reading from top to bottom, you know, left to right. There's a there there is thought that goes into how I want the viewer to read the cartoon. There are certain elements that I want you to see first that sets up what you're going to see last. Now, and all this happens within 10 seconds, you know. But there's there's a method to the the madness in the sense of how I want you to read the message. Now, I will say that uh, and it is funny that you bring up that seeing both sides, uh, because that is the one thing that probably made me a bad political cartoonist when I was doing that sort of thing, is that no one wants a fair political cartoonist. You know, and my wife, my wife calls me Boy Scout, you know, because I I I do try to see things from different directions. Yeah. Um, and even if it's if it's hearing a story, reading an article, or meeting someone, or disagreeing with someone, I want to see, okay, why am I disagreeing with this person? What is how are they seeing life through their lens? Um, so yeah, not something that's that that's really sought after for political cartooning, but I think fits well with the fire service because I don't want to get out there and I don't want to be that that that that person just pointing fingers. Um, I hope that, and and again, I always claim that I'm not the sharpest cryon in the box. There are people out there far smarter than me, and I'm hoping they're figuring a lot of this out. All I'm doing is giving you a catalyst for conversation. I'm giving you a cartoon that you know, and I love it when I get see posts like this, or people share that you know, my the magazine's open and I've done it's a kitchen table and everyone's talking about it, yeah, you know, or or you know, I there are a couple people that tape my cartoon over the urle, you know. It's a silly thing, but it's one of those things that starts conversations, it's one of those things that gets people thinking. Um, and to me, that's the greatest compliment I can get about my work. So I do try to see things from different sides. I try to be fair as fair as I possibly can be. Uh, but um at the end of the day, it's um I hope when you when you read these that you're not just looking at someone else, that you're that it's a mirror and you're you're reflecting a little bit about what this is talking about. Um, you know, my my buddy Rick Lasky, chief Rick Lasky, always talks about that he'll see these and and laugh. And an hour later he's driving down the road going, Oh my god, he was talking about me. You know, but that's you know, but that's I guess that's the power of what I'm doing, uh, and what any cartoonist is doing, and it's just not me, it's it's not a vain thing that I'm saying here, is that if we do our job correctly, we've made our point within that 10 seconds. And um, my first editor at the Tampa Tribune, she was amazing. Uh, and she taught me a lot about how to approach things like a journalist. Um, and she said, you know, that a great cartoonist needs to be like a concert pianist. And she's like, you have to be able to hit all the emotions and all the notes, because if you hit the same note and you play the same tune over and over and over, no one will pay attention. So you'll see cartoons come out that just have absolutely no point, they're silly to be silly. And a lot of times I will do that to kind of set up because I know something as heavy is coming, and I call those the gut punches. Okay, there's no humor involved, but I want you to pay attention. Well, if all I'm doing is that type of heavy hitting, heavy hitting, heavy hitting, there's going to be a certain numbness that comes to it, and my in the message and the in the and and what I'm trying to convey is not going to be as powerful.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

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Bonnie Rumilly 25:10

You know, I have several pieces in mind that speak to me, you know, and I can put myself in that situation that you have on the page. I love the ticking time bomb in the ambulance. Um, I love the firefighter with the anvil in the ocean, dragging him down. Um, I think they are so tangible and so relatable, you know, and putting my EMT braid on or David putting his fire brain on, you know, they speak to us immediately. And you know, there's one in particular I want to ask you about because we talk a lot about leadership on this show. And there is one that's titled Bullseye. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit particularly about that one and your vision behind it.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Yeah, so um that is the uh the the message behind that is to be the target. And uh that is actually the the class that I teach now is be the target. And it's not as much about because you know, and and I've and I've put this out on Facebook and and Instagram different ones, and I don't put any words to it whatsoever. Right. And 90% of what I get back is I am the target of all this bad stuff, I am the target of what my chief is doing to me, what the union is doing to me, what all this stuff is. And the point I'm trying to make is that you want to be the target, you want to be the target for others to aspire to be. You want to make yourself that person that everyone else sees as the leader, and that being the target is a good thing, that there's a difference of having the target on the front as opposed to having the target on the back. Um, and and that's one of the things that again, seeing things from all sides, I love, and it's one of the things I like about the class that I'm doing right now is this we we talk about what being a leader is, but then we get into what uh what are the pitfalls that you can get yourself into that will destroy everything that you've already built. And then what do we do as leaders to grow and go on? You know, because uh we always talk about okay, yeah, this is how you become a leader, become a leader. Well, what happens when you become that leader? Now what? What's the next step? You know, so that's a lot about what that cartoon is representing is being the target, is making that a positive thing instead of a negative.

Voiceover 27:18

That's so great because um there's so much emphasis on you know getting up to the position, up getting up to the point where you become that leader, but not we don't really have a lot of training or resources to develop those leaders. So such a great class at uh that you're running there.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Or the worst thing is you were promoted and left on your own.

Voiceover 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

You know, we don't have a train academy for new officers. You know, you may take a test, you may, you know, pass this, you know, all the litmus tests of everything you have to do to become a you know a certain rank. But there's nothing of how you do conflict management. How do you, you know, how do you talk with someone who is having marital issues at home? And these are all things when I became a lieutenant that I had to learn the hard way sometimes. And I wish I could go back and give different advice than I did at that time because I just didn't know any better.

SPEAKER_06 28:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

You know, at least I had the foresight of I had some good mentors of, you know, if there's anything like that, don't do it in front of people, you know, take them out to the front of the engine or someplace to get some privacy. Uh, but you know, I I wish I would have had some type of training uh to say, hey, this is how you handle yourself in these situations.

Voiceover 28:28

Absolutely. Um I'm totally in sync with that sentiment. Um, you know, having retired, and I wish I had a time machine to go back and change some of some of the stuff that I did or didn't do. And uh, you know, it's it is uh still I think a large gap in the fire service that we need to fill.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Yeah. Uh that that goes right up to the chief officers as well. You know, one of the complaints, I mean, I've been through at my firehouse, I've been through three chiefs. Um, and each one of them they had to learn how to communicate with elected officials, always evolving elected officials. You know, that it again, all these things. We don't we do a horrible job of preparing people for these things.

Bonnie Rumilly 29:51

You know, we are careful on the podcast and obviously in our therapy work, Stacy and I, to validate the feelings and to acknowledge the betrayals that people feel. Um, but also having been a past leader myself, a captain during COVID, it's lonely at the top, you know, and I think what you're saying, it's harder when you don't have the tools or the training to handle certain situations. I feel it helped me to be a therapist because I could rely on some of those skills. Um but I love how you describe the bullseye because I do think a lot of people, and even myself, my I found my brain going to the negative, but I think we could do that with everything. And it makes you take a pause and take a step back and reanalyze how you're looking at things, you know, even something as simple as a cartoon.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, and it is so hard these days, whether it's in the firehouse or whether you're online, is to find anything that's you know, some positivity in your life.

SPEAKER_06 30:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

And that is so hard at times is to seek out positivity and to try to cut out that negativity. Um, I do it all the time with social media. There was a time when, you know, back uh probably between 2008 and 2015 or so, that's what you had to do. If you didn't have a big social media following, you know, you're you're somehow uh not producing, or it was something like that. And I have found over the years that it is far better to cut that out of your life, to unfriend people that are that negative influence that are always that anchor dragging you down in some way or the other. And you know, and unfortunately, during political times, it's even easier, you know, to cut people out. But you know, again, it's that it's that constant pressure cooker of negativity that you've work where you can in life, cut that out, and that helps you because there are other things that you can't do. If you're a chief, you got elected officials, those people are in office until they're out of office, and you have to deal with whatever world that is. That is a negativity or positivity that you can't control sometimes. So, why not put yourself in a position where you can better handle those things by cutting the ones that you can out of your life? You know, you don't need that extra drag when you need that enthusiasm and that energy to be able to get you past those other times, you know. And I and I and again, and I try to and I try to tell people that from time to time. And even with my cartoons, I mean, there are there are groups out there on Facebook dedicated to trashing everything that I do. And you know, and I'm okay with that because you know what, they're still reading what I'm doing, and they're still relevant, yeah. They are, and there are people that actually come to me saying, you know what, I've been I am actually of shame that I've been part of this group. And to me, that's again, that makes my day that one person cut that negativity out of their life. You know, so and it's hard, it's hard. There are days where I have to force myself to do the same thing. But if you always try to focus on that positivity and realize that you have that target on the front that you want people to see and you want people to follow, and you want to be that inspiration in their life, uh, that helps you get through a lot of this.

Voiceover 33:06

Yeah, such an important point, and we've really never touched on it before. Just the fact that you know, the visibility that we take on you as a very high-profile cartoonist in the fire service and in the you know, in general, or someone who steps out of being on the line at the fire department under the radar, now they're stepping into a leadership position. Well, now you are now visible, and you know, you we don't think about maybe that keeps some people, you know, keeps some people from promoting because they don't want to be that visible, but it's kind of comes with the territory.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Well, you know, and I I'm a firm believer that the minute we walk into the firehouse doors, we have a limelight on us. Now that light changes throughout our careers, but even as a rookie, you walk in, you have a limelight on you. There is that spotlight, and people are seeing what you do, you know, and we are already making our judgments and we're making our assessments of what type of firefighter you're gonna become, and then you become that firefighter. Uh, my my my my second chief always told me that you know, you're not worth anything in the fire service until you've been in there for five years. And you know, and I was like, Oh, you gotta be kidding me. And at five years, everything just kind of cleared up, the fog lifted. I was like, Oh my god, he's right, you know. But even up to that time, the spotlight was on me. What type of firefighter am I going to become? You know, and that's when he even came to me as well, I think you need to be an instructor. Because I guess I had proven myself up to that point. You have that spotlight on you, and your actions are always being watched. So, what are your actions and your words saying about you? You know, there is no hiding in the fire service. Right.

Bonnie Rumilly 34:41

You're making a really great point, and I think that's another thing that people don't give leaders really that grace of understanding what it's like to be in the chief's role, right? Or to be the person who has to make all of those tough decisions. And like you said, they're sandwiched between all of the people they're in charge of, but then there's a whole host of players above them. Um, and a lot of times people don't know who those players are and what the accountability level is. So I really like how you're bringing that point up because it's something that we haven't really discussed, and that limelight is very important, and I think that it causes a unique pressure for our leaders, and it makes you wonder, you know, when there is a mistake or when something isn't handled the way everyone would have thought. You know, how does that pressure take its toll on a leader as well? And I'm not condoning or saying that those people are allowed to betray their people because they're not, but you could kind of understand in human behavior why someone in such a position of power could be under such pressure and how that might translate into life every day.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Yeah, and you know, and I and I would tell my crew that from time to time as well. Now, I I only went as far as lieutenant, but I you know, and I think anyone who goes up through the ranks understands what I'm getting ready to say is that when you first come in, there is that pressure from above. You need to perform, you need to prove yourself, you need to do all these things, become certified. Then you promote up. And now, not only do you have that pressure from above, now you've got the pressure from below. Now I had three guys under my command, and they had certain expectations of me as their officer. So now I had that pressure coming up from that direction and the pressure from above. And as you grow through the ranks, that pressure from below becomes even greater. But I don't think the pressure from above ever really relinquishes that much because it's just a different type of pressure. And one of the things that I would do with my crew is we would and the fire engine was the place where it was all it were there there were no limitations. My guys knew to call me lieutenant when we were in front of the public. I didn't care if they called me Paul any other time, but it was in the truck when the headsets are on, the doors, you know, the windows are up, they could say whatever they wanted to say, the conversation could go wherever it wanted to go. And there were times where it was like, oh my god, the chief, this or whatever. And that's where again, I would step in and say, you know what, you have no idea the pressure he's under. These are some of the things that you don't know, or maybe you're not suspecting, you know, because again, as a lieutenant, I never had the burden of an entire fire department under my command. I never had to be on the scene where I had our agency plus other agencies, and I had to make decisions that could have affected lives. I had a crew, you know, so I could only imagine what that pressure must have been like. Um, and so I was I was always trying to at least get my guys to look at it from that direction.

Voiceover 37:47

This episode is made possible by Strobes and More, a New England-based leading distributor, installer, and servicer of emergency vehicle equipment. Visit strobesandmore.com to sign up for special offers and receive 10% off your next order. This episode is made possible by the First Responder Center for Excellence. Discover more at FirstresponderCenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. Yeah, I love so much of what you're saying, and I can relate to a lot of it. And uh, I think, you know, I my world I used to think of it in terms of being part of the problem versus being part of the solution, right? You know, the guys on the line, it's easy for us to complain. Um, but are we really solving anything by doing that ultimately? It's good to get it out, but at some point, like how can we, you know, how can we make it better collectively? And uh I think that's you know, that's something we can we can still improve on in the fire service. Um, I just wanted to shift gears with you, Paul. Um and this is actually in the same vein, but let's talk about another one of your illustrations. What I think is incredible about it is it does list some common fire service issues, but also on the other side of the blackboard, it's got a list of solutions, and the the common denominator is it's facilitated by coffee. So, can you talk a little bit about creative problem solving in the firehouse and how this cartoon evolved?

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Uh the funny thing is, I was never a coffee drinker until I joined the fire service. And um and and the the number the first job you learned when you came into my firehouse is how to make a good pot of coffee. Yeah, uh so that became the the nucleus of everything that seemed to happen was if the when you came into the firehouse, the first thing you did was got a pot of coffee. Hey, how you doing? How are the kids? What's going on in your life? You know, throughout the day, you would grab that pot of coffee. Uh, when we come in for training, you had you went for coffee, you know. So that always kind of seemed to be the the the the surrounding of where a lot of great conversations came from. And I realized how just important those conversations are in the firehouse. When again, I as an introvert, I don't say much. Um, I I kind of to stay back in the scene a little bit and survey what's going on, listen to the conversations. I've already said more words than I'll probably say in a month here. Uh but being able to listen and understand what's going on and you see how you know a simple problem can get 16 solutions, you know, just by sitting around with a cup of coffee. And so I wanted to do this cartoon that you know there is power in that coffee cup, you know, in that pot of coffee, but it's more about the communication and giving your people an area. Like I said, not all the guys on my department are coffee cup drinkers, you know, but we that that time in the engine coming back from a scene was so valuable because it allowed them to say things that they couldn't say in the firehouse. So they couldn't say to the captains or the chiefs or whomever it may be. If I did something it was game on uh they I had two different types of crews in my career. My first one was very training oriented very serious and my last group could have been you know I couldn't have had more knuckleheads in one truck. And they were both great. They would both they were they were amazing firefighters but personality wise it was night and day you know and I had to let them have that opportunity to talk to me. Because at other times they couldn't do it. There were certain rules and regulations and I wanted to let them know that that was out the window whatever you have to say to each other or whatever that happens in this truck. So that became our coffee pot in a lot of ways. Whether they were trying to to take a conversation and spiral it downward to the point where I would take my headset off which was a win for them. But it built that team you know it built the team that we had. And that was the coffee pot because so much can be had when you let conversations happen and you don't judge people. You don't allow conversations to become contentious. You know and there's where that conflict conflict resolution comes in where you've got to be able to stop step in and say okay well this is getting out of hand. Right. You know I'm not pointing fingers I'm not busting heads I'm saying okay well let's get back to pull this back to a respectable level because you know how it is no matter whether it's in the firehouse or whether it could be online one one person starts raising a voice gets a little bit more bass in that voice and the next person has to go up same with being online the blah blah blah whoever's the loudest is the person that's right. You know it's important to be able to pull that back and keep it contained as a leader. And I say leader not as that you have to have the bars on your collars. There's a lot of times where that leader is the new person in the firehouse and they're the one making the common sense. There's a respectable way of coming with that. So that's where that cartoon really came from and it has so many different directions other than the coffee pot. But the whole point of that was to get the conversation started of what does conversation mean?

Bonnie Rumilly 42:53

And what is I really love the I just love the concept and the analogy of it because we all know in this line of work that coffee pot means so many things.

SPEAKER_06 43:05

Yeah.

Bonnie Rumilly 43:06

Right? It's family it's gathering it's talking so I love both the analogy and the reality of it. So it was a good vision that you had. You have some other interesting uh things out there that you've been working on. You have the Adam 12 Plymouth and Prince of your hot rod edition. Can you talk a little bit about where you're going with all of those works I have no idea where it's going.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

That is one of those things that I'm just doing for fun. You know I mean I'm I'm a big history advantage guy. I I love doing that and I've got a whole line uh the Adam 12 uh again I love 70s TV shows for some reason that just the era I grew up as a kid uh it's just the fondness you know so emergency atom 12 Kojak Starsky and Hutch I mean I always love those things so yeah um this is one of those things I just kind of put out there yeah it's available as a print but you know uh that's more of just again therapy in a sense for me you know it's something totally different. Um I have to have a lot of different oars in the in in the in the water uh to be happy uh so that's just another avenue you know it's kind of like I do the cartoons but um I don't know if you can see behind me I it's kind of hard to see but I'm also working on a new fine art piece uh which is something that I'm getting more back into after uh what almost 25 years of doing cartoons uh and reconnecting with that part of my artistic past uh because of the next venture we're doing um me and my wife so uh I don't know if you want to get into any of that right now or uh what what the next chapter holds but uh yeah that's actually one of our questions um and I do want to make sure we talk about your work with the USO but let's talk about you know what's next for Paul Combs what what do you what do you what do you have up your sleeve? Well you know I mean we're still doing the fire cartoons um and after uh Bobby Halton's passing uh my new boss David Rhodes uh we're we're exploring new areas where maybe we can go um with the cartoons uh so that's kind of exciting but uh I guess uh again we were talking about just things kind of just pop up in your life and and hard left turns and you weren't expecting yeah um I've always had my art studio in my house and we've got this large two-story colonial and now that we're empty nesters I've taken over more rooms than I thought I would and it's got to the point where I need more space as an artist to create all the things that I want to create. So I was just looking for a new studio and um I live in a town of 10,000 people up here in northwest Ohio and it's this Rockwellian town of you know just we we just have this beautiful downtown square and you know all the whole uh iconic you know midwestern thing going on and we've always had this old house here called Christmas manor and it was a house built in 1874 and it's been vacant for a few years and my wife and I just started looking at it and we ended up purchasing it uh two months ago and a lot of work still needs to be done but uh it's going to be my uh studio but what we're doing is we're opening an art gallery wow I never would have if you'd have told me a year ago that I was gonna have an art gallery I wouldn't have believed you uh but that's you know and and that's become kind of a new passion and and a new direction for us is learning how the business of that works and how to connect with other artists and learn that aspect of it because again uh me as an introvert I'm not the icebreaker type so I just can't go and just start conversations with people. Um so it this in a lot of ways is making me step out of that comfort zone a lot like public speaking does for me is uh you know that it it allows me not to get stagnant but stretch out a little bit and learn new things so uh yeah this is a totally new thing it makes absolutely no sense and we're doing it anyway um but uh yeah we're excited about it it's this beautiful iconic home and uh is it uh gallery 317 okay and my daughter's the one that came up with the number because it is actually on 317 West Butler Street but it is and and my daughter is in on this with us uh so it is the three of us with one goal and my studio has always been called studio seven which was my first badge number oh so even though the the the the address is 317 it has more of a meaning congratulations Paul thank you we're excited that's wonderful for you and um hopefully David and I will get to come out and visit it when you open one day please do please do all right another road trip there's always going to be coffee we we have so many trips on the calendar you have no idea but um that's great really happy for you well thank you it's exciting before we um forget let's talk about your work with the USO tell us what you do um where you do it and and kind of what's involved in in the you know the outreach part of all of it uh yeah so um the I'm part of a an organization called the National Cartoonist Society and we have been involved with the USO that dates all the way back to World War II um in 2008 um Jeff Bacon who is a retired captain from the Navy who draws cartoons for the Navy Times reconnected that organization with the with the military in the USO and they started uh taking cartoonists out and drawing for the troops and the trip started off small and by the time I got involved in 2010 we're going to Afghanistan we're going to Iraq um we're going downrange uh I found myself in military choppers you know again you talk about things that you thought you would never do in your life right um but the beauty of what we're doing is um it is the only time that I personally do live caricature is when I'm on USO tours and and I always say the beauty of this is the USO sends a lot of entertainers out and they put on concerts or whatever it may be. You know they do a lot of football players sports personalities and you may get a photograph with them um you know a handshake and then you move on the beauty of what we do is we get you for 15 or 20 minutes. People, you know, there's usually 10 of us eight to 10 of us that go on tour at a time. So it's a first come first served you come to your table I'll do a caricature of you but the beauty of that is I become your lifeline home for a while. And whether that whether that means that we were in the military hospitals visiting the wounded or we're out in a tent somewhere in Afghanistan is that I've got you talking about your family I've got you talking about sports uh you know what your hobbies are back at home all these things and for that little brief time I've got you somewhere other than the war zone you're in or the hospital you're in. It's a break from that mundane. So that's the beauty of what we get to do. And at the end I give them the silly character of themselves you know and it's something they can Skype home about for a while but it's that lifeline that we bring um and I like to think a lot of it is the comfort uh that we bring when we're in the hospitals um I don't know how involved you want to get with stories here but uh you know we we've got plenty of the impact that we have I know one was uh I was in Germany and we were at a hospital and that was the first stop for a lot of soldiers coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan and this soldier had been badly burned and uh I was asked whether I wanted to go in of course I'm gonna go they knew my background as a firefighter they said hey you're perfect for this well nothing can prepare you for that you know uh that's again as a firefighter you see things but nothing really can prepare you for what war does to the human body um but I went in and I started a conversation with this young man and I told him what I did but I was like I could draw a cartoon for your kids whatever you know and he goes no I want you to draw a a portrait of me now he was barely burned in the face in upper torso and I I wasn't reluctant to do it but I'm like are you sure you want this and he was like yeah he goes can you do it realistic I was like I can and he goes I want you to draw me as realistic as you possibly can so I did it and for 20 minutes we talk and he's telling me about his family and his kids um what life might be like when he gets home all these things and at the end I asked him one more time if he wanted to see it he did and I showed it to him he took a deep breath and just gave me a fist bump and said thank you. He goes uh the nurses here he goes I've been here for two weeks and the nurses wouldn't give me a mirror this is the first time I've seen myself and talk about a bomb being dropped on you and other than the fact that I called him a certain name to his face which in the military they appreciated he understood and I understood that that's what he needed that was the therapy he needed he that was weighing on him and he needed to see himself um we have lots of stories like that you know even even visiting some of the retirement homes and visiting the retired warriors that we have uh the stories and the experiences uh we I always they always thank us for being there but oh my gosh I mean the the things we get and the appreciation we get for life when we come home I hug my daughter a little bit tighter you know when I would come home for those now obviously as the wars have drawn down there's not as much of a need for us uh which is a blessing too yeah uh but um yeah my daughter was younger at the time and yeah you just get more of appreciation and you travel the world you see a lot of places that don't have the the luxuries that we do in life yeah uh so that is the benefit of again getting out of your box experiencing new things um I always tell my daughter there is power in the word yes um it is not a comfortable thing to say hey you're going into a war zone I'm I'm a firefighter yeah I see bad things and yeah we may do some dangerous things but I'm everybody shooting at me yeah you know I've had warrants fired at me so it you know if there was some apprehension in saying yes but I said yes and the benefits of what that has brought back to me and maybe something I've touched someone else's life has been a mess. You know and um I always told my wife that you know there were things that there things like keynoting FDIC. Not a comfortable thing for someone who likes to be in the back of the room with a sketchbook. But I never want my daughter or anyone else to think that I didn't have the courage to say yes to something that I was afraid to do. That's by taking the courage and making that commitment you know and taking that deep breath and doing it anyway uh you'd be amazed what life will bring you.

SPEAKER_05 53:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Kind of like buying a gallery and maybe being bankrupt in a year.

Bonnie Rumilly 53:41

Well you know Paul what you just shared uh it's incredible and what's very inspiring about you is not just looking at your work but in talking to you I now have an understanding of who you are and you're someone with endless possibility and you keep your your eyes open to the world for the potential in you and in others. And I that's just so incredibly inspiring. And I know that our viewers and listeners will be inspired by you today because I know that I am and listening to that story how you could connect with that soldier and give him what he needed in a way that maybe no one else could. It's why you were on that mission.

SPEAKER_02 54:21

Yeah well and you know and it's just not me. I mean the other cartoonists we have um they connect in a different way I mean they don't all do caricature right you know and some of them they're they've been doing cartoons for a long time uh or or cart you know uh different comic strips or whatever and they make that connection of oh my gosh I grew up watching or you know looking at your stuff you know so but that is again that is the beauty of what we bring as cartoonists on these trips and it is by far the most rewarding thing I've ever had a chance to do in my life. Wow.

Voiceover 54:51

Well Paul it has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you and I I know we could keep going maybe at some point we can do a part two to this um I could be boring for another hour just ask okay sounds like a plan. Please share with us where people can find you your your work and anything else you want to share in terms of uh projects or events you have uh yeah sure um the probably the easiest way to get with me is just go to my website which is uh Paulcombs art dot com from there it's kind of a conduit to where you know the all the work that I do um or fireengineering.com to see my uh my fire service cartoons uh I do uh two blog cartoons a month and there's always the one in the magazine that gets published there too so and buy the magazine please buy the magazine old school well great uh Paul again thank you I had no idea that you were so diverse and so widely talented and and of service in so many different ways so I think um I know I'm inspired I think anybody that hears is is going to be inspired so thank you for sharing this with us today. You're welcome it's been a pleasure thank you Paul thanks Bonnie remember to like and subscribe our YouTube channel is Responder Resilience. We're on Facebook Responder Wellness Think and Responder TV LinkedIn Apple Podcasts Spotify and go to our website responder tv.com for past episodes and guest information until next time stay safe be kind to yourself take care of the colour