S6 E44 Behind The Lines: A 9/11 Story: FDNY Rescue 5 Survivor Bill Spade & Combat Vet Jaymes Poling

SPEAKER_07 0:01

Being a firefighter in a rescue company, I was always told there's no one coming after you. I was not gonna leave one civilian behind in those hours.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

After 9-11, I knew I wanted to fight. I watched the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and hoped to see combat. I enlisted less than a month after my 17th birthday.

SPEAKER_07 0:36

No matter what your story is or where you were, that day connected us all.

Voiceover 0:49

Welcome to Responder Resilience. I'm David Dashinger. Twelve men sat down to breakfast at FDNY Rescue 5 on 9-11. By lunch, 11 were gone. Bill Spade dug himself out of the North Tower, and he's carried the weight of losing the other 11 ever since. James Polling carried that morning into war. Eight years with the 82nd Airborne, three tours in Afghanistan. One man's life changed on 9-11, the other's was built by it. Dominic Farinacci gave their stories a voice and the music of his trumpet, and now they're taking it on the road. A live performance touring the country. So today, a firefighter, a paratrooper, and a trumpet player on what it takes to stop carrying the weight alone. This is Responder Resilience. This episode is brought to you by Fight Camp, real training on your schedule. Head to jointfightcamp.com/slash R R and use code RESILIIENS for 10% off. There's a new app built by firefighters for firefighters, and it's called Crackle. Download the app now for free as a legacy member and get early access to exclusive content, tools, and updates as they drop. Get the free app at crackle.responderTV.com. We invite you to like and subscribe, YouTube Responder Resilient, Facebook, Responder TV. We're on LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and our website is respondertv.com. We'll be right back to speak with Bill, Tom, and James right after this. Ask a first responder who they are, and you're likely to hear I am a police officer. I am a firefighter. I am a paramedic. I am a 911 communications operator. Not I do this work, but I am this work. Ask a clinician why they work with first responders. And they may say, There's no fire falling and helping help them. Join us in shaping a culture where mental health, wellness, and leadership are priority, not whispering. Where support is a type of strength, not failure, and where no one has to carry the weight alone. Welcome to Responder Resilience. We try to spotlight on the unseen battles of first responder reality. And celebrate the powerful wins that come from the grit of post-traumatic growth. We understand the culture, honor the trust, and bring you conversations from the change makers, passionate about helping first responders come home whole. With your hosts, retired Lieutenant David Dashinger, Dr. Stacy Raymond, and Bonnie Roomley, LCSW EMT. He served with the NYPD before joining the FDNY, where he spent a decade with the Elite Rescue Company 5 on Staten Island. Today he's a docent at the 9-11 Memorial and Museum, and you may have seen him in National Geographics 9-11 Reunited. James Poling enlisted at 17 and served as an infantryman, machine gunner, and squad leader. Today he leads Modern Warrior Live, the nonprofit he co-created, which has reached more than 10,000 veterans and 30,000 civilians through over 150 performances. Dominic Farinacci was hand-picked by Winton Marsalis at 17 years old, studied in Juilliard's first jazz class, and led Jazz and Lincoln Center's outpost in Qatar. Today he directs the Tri-C Jazz Fest Academy in Cleveland. Their newest production, Behind the Lines, a 9-11 story, is on tour now. Gentlemen, welcome to Respond to Resilience. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. So, Dom, as a jazz trumpeter, how does a musician wind up producing a show about war in 9-11?

SPEAKER_09 4:59

A few years back, uh I had the pleasure of meeting James when I was kind of on a search for learning more about this song by Tom Waits that I was getting ready to record soldiers' things. Um a song about a soldier coming back from war, and I wanted to understand more about that experience, and and so I wanted to hear somebody who had that lived experience, right? And so I ended up meeting James and um, you know, the the first time we talked for for many hours, it it it broke all my kind of preconceptions of my limited understanding of, you know, returning veteran in terms of the the damaged veteran, the hero, or the liability. And, you know, I heard this just timeless story of you know, James, what he experienced in Afghanistan and coming home of that really encompassed like the full circle of the human condition, right? Um, just an incredible sense of of tribe and and determination and love for what he was doing, um, and the bonds that he forged with a lot of guys that he served with. And also, you know, of course, incredible loss and incredible challenge, but this overarching story of just um uh unimaginable resilience and the persistence to want to move forward and to help others. And I was so moved, you know, by what he was talking about. And, you know, I said, man, we gotta uh how can we bring this to a larger audience to be able to hear? And you know, for me, using music um and you know, the world that I kind of come up in, have come up in over the years, um, bringing that together with story, you know, I thought is a really powerful combination of of being able to bring this story that in one level seems so uh distant from most of our experiences, but bring this story in a way that really can relate to us as just human beings, and to help to you know have people kind of better understand about the veteran experience. And uh and so that was uh the beginning of a collaboration of James and I, you know, creating this production which became known as Modern Warrior Live, and we also started our nonprofit around it. And then a few years later, um, you know, around the 25th anniversary of 9-11, thinking, you know, we would love to bring a first responder in who has that firsthand experience of really the impetus story in part why James joined. And so we ended up meeting Bill, and just like when we talk with James, like talk with Bill is clicked immediately. Bill has dedicated his life to sharing his story, and uh the connection was so genuine, and we invited him to the team and created a brand new show, um, Behind the Lines, a 9-11 story, bringing those stories together.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

There was a time in my life where you know I found myself in kind of a dark place. I felt like some of the uh conversations around mental health felt a little more prescriptive, and I didn't quite see a way out of some of the tougher times that I was in. And so we wanted to create a piece that that highlights that and can communicate some of those darker times in a way that hopefully people feel they can relate to, but then we can take them beyond that.

Voiceover 8:05

Well, James, take it from there. Like Modern Warrior, that started as your story, then you guys added bill and and took it to uh a new direction, kind of evolved it uh into something even kind of more elaborate or more in-depth um about the experience that we have when we were deployed, whether it's as a responder or as within the military. What is it what was that like for you to first to take it to the stage and to get up there and talk about your experiences and then what was that evolution like to bring Bill in and change the direction a little bit?

SPEAKER_05 8:38

Yeah, so you know, I mean, I guess for starters, it's not something I ever thought that I would be doing. I never really saw myself as an artistic person. I got out of the military. Um, I was trying to get into strategy consulting. I was finishing a finance degree and trying to figure out what that that path into kind of you know the professional white collar America looked like. And um, you know, when I first met Dominic, Dominic just so genuinely wanted to internalize kind of the the veteran experience and and share it in the most authentic way. Um, that I initially, I'm being completely honest, I kind of felt obligated to to share that story. And then as soon as we started putting it in front of people and I saw the caliber of artistry and the the team that Dominic brings to whatever he's doing, uh quickly became a passion. We could we could quickly tell that we we were getting people um to open up and talk about some some things that they've been struggling with. We were getting people to connect to resources on the ground. We found that over 75% of the audience that's on our show were more likely to seek mental health or community resources after the show, while at the same time understanding that we created something that really stands on its own legs as entertainment, and we can put that out on the forefront, and that's gonna be the funnel and things, things that don't get that allow us to have the conversations on the back end. So as we were traveling around the country doing the show, feedback I would get more than anything. Uh I I wish my ex-wife could see this. I I wish that this started a conversation in my family long ago. Um and we we found how how universal the message felt, even outside of the veteran community and the first responder community, um, which always kind of felt like a natural thing. We found that we we had young people that wanted to talk about, you know, not just the family members that they could see in our shoes and and better understand after some of the conversations, but talk about some of the mental health struggles that they have, or um whether they're dealing with substance abuse or um you know mental illness really any anything. I mean, I think ultimately the thing we always lean into is that if we agree kind of conceptually that there's a growth opportunity in working through adversity, that that you know applies universally. And so that's something that we find the audience really takes on. Uh and I think the method of storytelling that we use is interesting in in the way that it it becomes hard to explain when you talk about it living on stage, but it's much more intuitive when you think about how you watch a movie, and sometimes you know the movie there's dialogue, sometimes there's an underscore, sometimes there's standalone music. But while you're watching scenes in, I think that the what we put on stage feels more like that, but it allows for it to kind of be absorbed, you know, kind of from the left hand, right brain side of the occasion throughout the entire process. Um so we we established that track that trust, that community with the initial show. And as soon as we got ill, it just felt, you know, like uh the piece that it it could naturally fit. Um the trust was there immediately. And uh it it just felt like it really enhanced what we were doing while allowing us to, you know, collaborate with, you know, in my opinion, a national treasure in the real estate. Um so getting to do that and travel around the country with Bill now, it's uh you know, it's I I can't imagine doing anything else. I'm looking forward to doing this hundreds of times over the next couple years.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

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SPEAKER_07 13:20

That night I got a call from my brother-in-law, Tommy Yankin. He's in Rescue 5 as well. He said to me, Bill, did you hear the news? I said, No, what news? He said, Bill, all the guys are gone. I said, What do you mean? He said, Bill, they're all gone. So there were 12 of us working that day. Every guy I had breakfast with was gone. I was the only one to make it out alive.

Voiceover 13:53

You've told your story hundreds of times at the 9-11 museum, and now you've got a live performance situation, you've got a band behind you, you've got uh James Dahm and a multimedia thing going on. What do you have to do differently or what do you do differently to tell your story with this new platform?

SPEAKER_08 14:09

With behind the lines, um I go a little more in depth in my story, and I bring out some detail that I really never uh tell most audiences, uh, because I always try to uh make it age appropriate to the audiences and uh and such. And with uh Behind the Lines, uh I really opened up about everything that occurred that day and don't leave much much out at all. So that's one thing that really has changed. Um and with that uh brings out emotions in me that uh make it seem like uh it's happening again at times, especially with the music. There's one part where we talk about and uh and I heard something coming down and then they played 10 to 15 seconds of uh music that uh seems to be like in a a collapse. And that's what it's supposed to be. And um it's pretty real at times uh when I hear those uh the sound of the drums or whatever, um like the buildings are coming down and I and then I describe what I felt at that that moment. Uh so it brings it back to uh life pretty uh significantly for me for me. And um and and I get to tell the story and uh and with behind the lines, uh one of the main reasons uh that I really enjoy telling the story there is I talk a lot about the counseling and my time after 9-11 and uh the need for help that I uh that I I knew I need I needed to get to straighten my uh myself out. And uh so that's that's what I'm uh proud of. And even as I give my talks now uh through the 9-11 museum and other uh places, um I find telling my story is great, uh, for people who've never heard it. But I really want to talk about the counseling. And so many people out there can use counseling, especially the kids. Um whether I talk to high school kids that have gone off to college and they don't know what it is to move away from home and uh be by themselves, or uh all kids that are in college and facing career decisions and they really don't know which way to go. Trying to help them with uh being open to everything in life.

Voiceover 16:27

That's great. Uh I want to circle back to the the getting help part um in a little bit because that's something that's uh aligns with our mission really closely. So, Dominic, you've been on the road, no doubt, done a lot of live performances maybe around the country, around the world. How does this compare? Especially first being on the road with these guys and and your crew, um, how does this compare to going out there and doing you know a typical gig where you're touring?

SPEAKER_09 16:56

Well, like James said, um, James never imagined that he would end up doing this. For me, you know, I never imagined that they say, Oh man, who's in your who's traveling with you? They said, well, you know, James is a veteran and Bill is a firefighter. Like, you know, it's usually, oh man, piano bass drums and great vocals. And all of them are also traveling with us. So it's such an interesting, you know, dynamic to to bring James and Bill on the road with us and with extraordinary artists, right? And great pianist, John Thomas, and uh uh, you know, Quincy Alridge, the vocalist is with us uh quite a bit, and you know, wonderful bass and drums and and a whole production team, right? Um, so you know, it on the surface it seems kind of random, but if you look at kind of the course or the evolution of my career over the past 20 years and my interest, it it really kind of fits perfectly, right? Um, and what I mean by that is, yeah, I spent many years, you know, just travel with my band and you know, I have, you know, 20 albums out, right? So just used to the touring life and uh in the States and you know, different places in the world. And uh, but you know, as I kind of got deeper and deeper into the music, and and I think, you know, maybe got a little bit older over the years, um, you know, I started to see like the profound impact that really music has on people in terms of of course bringing people together and just also on our kind of psychological well-being, you know, and the healing aspect of music. And uh, you know, a few years back, my my mom went through cancer, and you know, most of us can, you know, uh relate to that experience, how it affects the individual and the family unit. And I kind of went to music to to kind of help bring some kind of peace of mind and peace during this like really chaotic moment. And that's when I started to kind of like literally bring together like you know, music and I mean intentionally bring together music and kind of mental well-being. And that was kind of the scene of it, right? So I always thought, you know, I look at like Louis Armstrong and you know, Duke Ellington and all of the so many of heroes, right? And like Nina Simone and and uh you know, so many great artists who not you know, not only who brought their art to the world and had a really important social cause kind of embedded in the fabric of who they are, right? So I always think like that's in the DNA of like this music. And I thought, you know, think always think like how can I make a real profound impact through my talent and my own experiences, and you know, meeting James and working with James and then meeting Bill, working with Bill. This is kind of our my my way of I think embedding something I'm very, very passionate about into my life and my career output. Um, and in in the hopes that it can, you know, bring such inspiration and empowerment to people um through this really important and powerful kind of platform of story and music.

Voiceover 19:53

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SPEAKER_10 20:35

Of course, in this production, we have um incredible live musicians, we have um beautiful multimedia, we have the stories and uh the vocalists, and we've built an incredible immersive set with beautiful lighting design that is loosely connected to a concept called synesthesia. And synesthesia is this idea that you can sort of feel or sense emotions as they relate to color.

Voiceover 21:04

Aaron Powell Let's talk a little bit about what you bring to this performance in terms of your experience in the military, uh whether that's the moral weight of combat or losing the tribe, um, the things that we have to navigate when we separate from some some mission that's as profound as as what you did. Um what would you like to share in terms of how you how you talk about that during the performance?

SPEAKER_05 21:31

Yeah, so you know, I mean I I joined when I was 17, so you know, I looking back, it feels very much I joined right out of high school. I I didn't know who I was. I think like a yacht a lot of young people trying to discover who they are. I I was on that same path. I was just doing it in the military. Um my first deployment, I think I was was 18 or 19 when when I left in 2007. Um and I was in Afghanistan too. 2007, 8, 2010, and 2012. And you know, my my first deployment there was a lot more of the you know, kind of close kinetic action, um, especially, you know, as I compare that to my my second and third deployment. Uh so we had, you know, in in the crazy moments, more of the kind of corner to corner of building fighting, um more reactive firefights, uh, dealing with ambushes, kind of close air support, things like that. Uh and at the time, you know, young, again, young guy figuring out who I was, uh, you know, I I I loved it. Um you know, it's it's it's a weird thing to say. My my unit lost people, but on my flipped deployment, I didn't lose anyone in my platoon. Um, so that's something that I know as I look at my individual deployments, it's okay, how you know, how how did the the people closest to me fare that that deployment? So the first one I really came out of feeling kind of invincible. Um you know, I came came back to the states. I found myself kind of numb to to everything outside of combat. And so I found myself chasing that adrenaline. Um, I think that's something that continued to my second deployment. Uh, my second deployment lost a friend in my platoon. Um, it was more kind of hilltop to hilltop fighting. I spent a lot more time in trucks, although not all my time in in trucks on that deployment, whereas my first deployment, I was dismounted walking everywhere. Um, we'd fly into a city, kind of walk through it, get picked up on the other end. Uh and my my third deployment things evolved quite a bit, at least for me personally. I never fired my weapon on my last deployment. Um you know, but we lost my my company lost more people on my on my last deployment. You know, there you're starting to see more booby traps, um, you know, kind of just well-placed IDs, and and it felt like the war had evolved. And so for me, coming back from my last deployment, it no longer well one, I no longer felt invincible after, you know, losing losing friends. And it's kind of a it's a weird weird kind of dichotomy there between being in the States and feeling invincible in the States, and then being in combat and feeling like, okay, well, you know, one day my ticket's gonna be punched here, especially like young looking at it. I just kind of assumed when I was younger that, you know, if if something was gonna happen to me, it won it was going to happen to me in combat. And and it's something that you just kind of I think after a certain amount of firefights you kind of grow to to just live with, you know, the um I I think that I even in firefights I didn't really feel much of a sense of urgency and unless, you know, rounds are kind of hitting within, you know, like five, ten meters on the ground, and then you're like, okay, now, now this is a thing I need to react to, whereas everything else kind of felt um routine, I guess. Which I know is uh I and I know I know first responders under this as well understand this as well, but when things feel routine and complacency creeps in, and it's that's what you know, you can really run into some some issues. Um but I was dealing with that overseas back home. I was just looking to feel something. I was uh, you know, kind of I was riding around intentionally in like horrible neighborhoods. I was putting myself in bad situations. Um, you know, I was being intentionally antagonistic at bars and and clubs. I was I was just looking for something. And I think that that translated as well to, you know, my drinking behavior. Um you know, I think I just generally um found myself like chasing, trying to feel something with you know I was I was chasing with with alcohol. Um I was meeting a lot of young women and um and at the time it it really it it did feel like I was just I was just trying to to find something to feel something in the moment, but then the next day I was always just kind of back to this baseline depression that that I was living in. Um ultimately it took me meeting somebody that that I felt like I wanted to try to get my stuff together for uh and sign up for a couple classes. And then once I started going to school and reconnecting with veterans, I found kind of an opportunity to to challenge myself again. I I felt like uh an opportunity to step into a leadership position again. Uh people started asking me to speak at events, and there I started to kind of find my footing, get a little bit of traction, and ultimately, you know, seek mental health treatment, um, going to the VA for the first time. And kind of piece by piece I started to build, you know, healthier habits, a healthier life, and and ultimately now I'm happier than I've ever been. But it it was it was years of you know honest, hard work, um, you know, and being willing to to be self-critical and and constantly look for the areas in my life that I think were holding me back and that I can improve and and kind of work on each one individually. Kind of couldn't deny the result.

SPEAKER_07 27:42

The event of the first plane hitting at 8 46 a.m. and the second tower coming down at 1028 a.m. is 102 minutes. In fact, that's my license plate. 102 minutes. 102 minutes of a day in history that changed the world. That changed me forever.

Voiceover 28:09

I want to kind of circle back to what we were starting to get into a little bit, and that was um where you were talking about going for counseling, and you shared a story offline about your first um your first clinician, um, which led you to find a second clinician. And I think it's such an important topic because we talk a lot about cultural fluency, cultural competence, and how important it is to build and keep the trust when someone is reaching out for help. So, what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_08 28:38

After 9-11, when I got back uh to the firehouse, just going there and meeting the the rest of the company that was to survive, you know, while I was still around. Um, I was told that I had to I had to go to see a counselor. It was kind of mandatory. And we had two of the two of them assigned to the firehouse. And I chose to want counselor of uh a woman, and I saw her a few times, and uh we didn't get along at all. Uh, she was of no help to me. Um she would take notes but never comment on anything. And I my my feelings was that she was writing a book and that uh I was gonna be part of it, and uh I wasn't getting anything out of it. Uh the real the real turning point of the whole me not seeing her was um I was asked to give a few eulogies for the guys that were lost. And uh I knew it was gonna be the toughest thing I ever did in my life. And um she called my wife and told my wife that I shouldn't be doing that, that it was I wasn't of um good mental health at that time, that I wasn't strong enough, and that would be uh it would it wouldn't be good for me and my mental health if I did the eulogies. And I I got so upset that she shared that with my wife. Um and to give a eulogy for a total firefighter um it's the utmost, you know. I mean and um I was gonna go through with it, you know, but I knew I had to seek help from someone else. Um and I went to the bank one day and there was a note up there on the board, uh, you know, mental health for 9-11 to the American Red Course, and I uh answered that. And I saw that woman for uh over four years, you know, and um and we would talk and she would stop me and tell me certain feelings that was happening, uh choristophobic, uh print of heights, things like that that never bothered me before. And um, so it did help. And uh she would tell me how how not to let my uh emotions uh get the best of me and uh how to handle a panic attack, anxiety, things like that. So I did see that for four years. It was helpful. I'm able to talk about it better because of that help that I received. And I always like to ended saying that after four years, she just told me, Bill, you're crazy. And I said, Oh yeah, she's got it right, you know. Uh and uh it was that time that uh, you know, I stopped seeing it, but we were in touch still uh after that on occasion, you know. But and I'm beginning talking about it at the museum and and giving tours, walking tours where I volunteered. I always tell the people, this is like groofed out for me, um, but you're not gonna get paid, you know. Um and the same thing with the show. You know, we have a lot of people that come to the shows. I tell my story, um, I tell people about counseling, uh how I how I went through it. Everybody has to deal with it do something, you know, but if we can guide them in a way, if they leave them to counseling, it's a start. And um, and it feels good when you're done, you know. And uh people open up to you and they tell you, uh, because of this show, I'm gonna do this. Um, I had one person at one of the shows, and then he said, you know, every time um I dealt with something with my family, I would run to my he said, I'd go to my basement and I'd express my feelings in my basement by myself. And then I'd come back upstairs with the family. And he said, I'm not going to the basement anymore. Um so we're doing good.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

She fulfilled a promise that was made to her husband and donated his organs so others could live. Five lives were saved in the process. He always did what was better for other people instead of himself. I would definitely consider my dad a hero.

SPEAKER_07 32:32

Getting the word out there, you're saving lives.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Actually, they're help helped my parents to be able to get me up car, so I can definitely get the dialysis.

SPEAKER_07 32:39

I heard about you, and I'm gonna help you. They saved my life. Now I'm watching the town in front of me, and then I see a plane. I watch that plane come down the Hudson River. I watch that plane go out to the Statue of Liberty, and I keep my eye on it. It comes back and it crashes right into that South Tower. 9.05 a.m. I remember the huge ball of flame that erupted over the whole tower. It covered the top of it.

Voiceover 33:15

So, Dom, I want to just touch on the creative process, um, which is of particular interest to me. Talk about like how do you approach something like this, this kind of uh performance as a composer or as a musician? Like, what's what was your process to build the music part of this?

SPEAKER_09 33:34

Yeah, I mean, and just like you know, listening to to James and Bill just right here, right? I've I've known James for eight years and you know, I know Bill for a couple years now, and you know, it's like hearing it, I mean, it's so it's so emotional. I mean, to hear what they're talking about, and it just resonates so deeply. And you know, that's where all the music comes from, right? So that's it. I mean, yeah, just uh so I mean the creative process, I mean it's uh it's internalizing their stories and you know, uh figuring out like artistically for me, like what yeah, what kind of musical situation should should accompany their the different moments in their in their journey and what does it sound like to me and you know who do I have in the band and you know how do I orchestrate it and build it out? Um and and yeah, so that whole thing is just guided a thousand percent by every word that James and Bill talk about, and there's there's obviously so much there, and it's so impactful. And and you know, we we have found it's been an interesting collaboration, um, you know, because sometimes when I write some music, you know, maybe James or Bill will hear hear it, and it it might not reflect exactly like how they were feeling, and they kind of come back to me and then I make some adjustments. So it was a really interesting collaboration that I didn't intend to have. Yeah, it sounds amazing. Trained artists, James and Bill. I've been doing this, you know. Then you come back and say, Man, that doesn't sound good, you know?

SPEAKER_05 35:22

You know, Dominic is unquestionable, he's one of the best living trumpet players in the world. And it's it's cool to be able to work with someone of his caliber, but there's so many times that I would write something and I would send it to Dominic, and he would send me something back that I could tell it reflected exactly what I wrote, but it didn't always reflect how I felt about something. And so it would really kind of send me down the path of looking at both how I communicated the experience I'm trying to communicate and how I felt about that experience. And he would help me sort through things in a way that that counseling kind of has, where I would look at a situation that I felt angry about and realize, like, oh, okay, this is something I'm I'm just sad about. I've just preferred to be angry about this thing for 10 years. But now that I'm actually faced with putting it down and working through what it sounds like emotionally with Dominic, uh, you know, I'm I'm able to kind of refine my own experiences. And so the whole process has been incredibly therapeutic for me from day one.

Voiceover 36:23

One of the things it brings to mind is I've always had this um interesting comparison between, say, being a first responder and being a musician, in that musicians, we go, we have charts, we have uh we play with some of the same people. Sometimes we jam and there's other people we've never played with before, but we somehow we all make it work, we make music. And we're doing it in front of an audience. First responders is a lot of similarities, right? We're we're in front of the public. Sometimes we're working with our crew, sometimes we get mutual aid and it's new people, but we all sort of follow policy procedure and general training. Um, but just love the fact that there is so many parallels between music and um first responder world and probably the military as well. So, Dom, um, I'd love you to add to what you were saying before about a specific instance where um you felt you know you had a creative opportunity to compose, orchestrate a moment in the show.

SPEAKER_09 37:18

Yeah. Well, you know, if you look at like thinking about how we want to start the show, um, you know, America the Beautiful, it's such a it's such a beautiful piece. And you know, I I wanted to put that as a first moment that people experience, right? But really done in kind of a solemn and reflective way, as opposed to like an overly like patriotic big way. And so we had this small moment, and I asked John the pianist, I'm like, picture it as a you know, like you're playing a lullaby, right? How would we approach that? And so the wonderful thing is when you when you have extraordinary artists on your team, um, you know, you just say something kind of general, and then John kind of knows exactly kind of what what to do, and it's perfect, right? So um, yeah, so we kind of approach that as kind of like a a lullaby-ish, kind of reflective, solemn piece, and it really sets you know a really introspective tone for the show. Um, in terms of writing music, you know, that's orchestrated behind Bill or behind James, um, yeah, every every moment has its, I think, story. And, you know, I think about part of the production, maybe about 35 minutes brings us uh into Bill's world from the moment that he is at the firehouse to when he gets the call all the way through responding to the World Trade Center attacks and you know, ending up at the hospital. So we looked at that as one kind of long suite of music. And, you know, there's obviously so much chaos and confusion and tragedy happening in that moment. And so musically, it was a challenge to kind of orchestrate that chaos in those moments and also have that those moments of uplift. There was one moment in the show when he's you know in yeah, and in the complete dark, and it's a it's a moment of real, of course, anxiety and darkness, but then there's a moment where he's flashing his flashlight and he says, if you can see me, come to my light. He says, and they come to my light. And that is such an important artistic moment, right? Because that's a huge shift, right? So we try to orchestrate all of these things to kind of follow, of course, you know, his story in in real time. Um, and there's so many powerful moments there. And you know, one thing I'd like to touch on of what you said about teamwork and the first responders and musicians and David, you know, fellow musicians, so that's great. It's so interesting to see the real um uh uh synergy there. And I think, you know, with a veteran, first responder, musician, like we spend so so much time internalizing our way of doing things and working to master whatever it is that we're pursuing, so that when we're in the moment, we can be truly spontaneous, right? And when we're in the moment, we're not even thinking about okay, how do I do this or what do I do? You just react. And that's why this production is always surrounded by extraordinary jazz musicians, because on one level, it is kind of a somewhat loosely through composed show, but not as rigid as like a Broadway show, right? You have because there's always moments of improvisation, and having done this so long with James and now many shows with Bill, like James and Bill are very much like members of the band now, you know, and we follow their pacing. And when Bill makes a mistake, which he always does many, many times throughout the show. Sorry, you know, when when Bill, you know, makes a mistake or or I make a mistake, we all, or James makes a mistake, we all adjust and work together to get through it, right? And you know, it's it's it's an awesome team effort. And when I'm on the bandstand with them, it's the same exact feeling of you know how I work with you know my my fellow musicians. And just to rebound from what I said, Bill is pretty miraculously flawless, and so is James. And one thing that in terms of their delivery, and one thing that's really, really fascinating is to be around people who have that consistency in their delivery, right? Um, and that's I know I know they haven't been talking about the sharing their story all their life, like they're not professional storytellers in the sense, right, but certainly their skill sets and what they learned in their training um definitely kind of roll over to being able to get on stage and deliver at such a high level every time.

Voiceover 42:06

This episode is brought to you by the First Responder Center for Excellence. Because even the best of us face unexpected challenges. They've got the tools, the training, and the resources to keep you strong, safe, and resilient. Equip yourself at firstrespondercenter.org.

SPEAKER_07 42:24

He said Chief Downey's headed out, and Tactical Support One is headed out. He says it sounds real. You better head off. I said, No problem, put me on the ticket, I'm going. I get my gear and I grab two good flashlights. I'm gonna need them.

Voiceover 42:42

Bill, I have a feeling you're the Miles Davis of firefighter um speakers, so I can't wait to see I can't wait to see it live.

SPEAKER_08 42:51

Um may I just add something, uh definitely forgot one point. He didn't talk about our productionist Dave Dave Jones, who uh is 23 years old and was born post-9-11. And uh meeting along with the band in love with everyone who's in uh ensemble. Um Dave calls me Pops, and I I call him Stun, you know? And another thing, John Thomas, the piano player. These are times in the uh show where I get emotional and I may take an extra pause longer than um uh you know what's scripted or whatever, and uh he'll back me up with another piano chord, add that to the uh to the to the music. And uh I always feel as I firefighter, he's got my back. Yeah. Now I'd uh and they all do, you know, Dom's explained if something goes wrong, this is what we're gonna do, you know. So I feel like that they've all got uh, you know, they've got our back on stage, uh, and we work together as a unit.

Voiceover 43:49

When you're finishing up the show, you're meeting and greeting people outside the audience. What are you hearing from the firefighters, the cops, the veterans and civilians in the audience? About the show.

SPEAKER_05 44:01

You know, the feedback used to really just kind of be focused on okay, this is done in a really high level, and you know, we we appreciated the artistry of it. Also, here's how it relates to to my story, and here's how the show got me thinking about my experiences and what I'm struggling with. And all of that's still there. But now that we have Bill too, it feels like we're really getting people a touch point to American history in in a way that is allowing them to personalize what that experience was for them, even if they were born after September 11th, or they feel like they didn't have that connection. So I think that the feedback in terms of how much the the audience is talking about kind of each one of those categories can vary depending on where we are geographically. Uh in New York, the feedback is very much people want to talk to you about what they were experiencing on September 11th, and and they feel so thoroughly connected to Bill and the entire show, and it becomes much more of kind of a a supportive conversation about this experience that we all went through together. When we're talking to younger groups or, you know, we're in some other parts of the country that may feel a little more distant from the events of September 11th. Um, they still they talk about how they've internalized that, but then they go on to talk about how, you know, the the things that Bill and I have talked about on stage, you know, uh relates to their individual experiences with their families, um, you know, their their own experiences with their own mental health. And um and for young people, it there's this educational component of, you know, this I I understood September 11th as history, I understand it as something different now. Um it's something I feel that way, you know, growing up. Think I think about Pearl Harbor and how I had an idea of what Pearl Harbor must have been like, and then I talk to veterans that were on the ground in Pearl Harbor, and it's a completely different experience. Um so I feel like we we get to have all of this this depth uh while at the same time, you know, it's living as entertainment and that being the foot that we're gonna put forward, and and ultimately that will be the thing that we know as that fine success that allows us to help more people, connect them to more resources, and start some some conversations that probably need started around the country.

Voiceover 46:42

Amazing. Dom. Tell us a little bit about the tour. I know you're coming to Florida in November. Uh, where can people find um can we get tickets? Where can they find you? What information would you like to share?

SPEAKER_09 46:54

We've had a great run. We we launched this at the beginning of September, and we've done um you know 12 or 14 um cities across the country, and uh we'll be wrapping up our our touring uh for this year um in Florida, uh November 8th in Delray Beach, the Arts Barra, and then on the 10th, University of Florida, Gainesville. And um, and then on the 11th, um, which is Veterans Day, um uh very special how this whole tour uh wrapped up because it'll be in the villages in Florida, where Bill, I know you have your second home, right?

Voiceover 47:28

Home of Snow. That's great. Is there a website or social channels you want to share? All all info and tickets are at modernwarriorlive.org. Perfect. Gentlemen, I wish we could keep going for another couple hours. There's so much uh I'm sure we could get into, but I'm incredibly impressed with what you're doing, uh, the scope of it, the fact that you've combined these stories, this the different multimedia, the music, and needed an amalgamation of what we do as first responders, uh military, and musicians. Like you found a common ground with all this, and uh I can't wait to see it live and um just look forward to having that experience that you've been talking about. I want to thank you so much for being here with us today.

SPEAKER_08 48:11

Thank you.

Voiceover 48:12

Thank you. Remember to like and subscribe, YouTube responder resilience, Facebook, responder TV. We're on LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and our website is respondertv.com. Until next time, stay safe, be kind to yourself. Take care, I think that's what they're doing.