Cancer Under Fire: Changing the Game to Reduce Risks | S5 E18

SPEAKER_04 0:01

We're so used to danger, you try to explain to a firefighter, please wear your mask. You know, you might not get cancer tomorrow, but you'll get it 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. But firefighter lives for the now. We've uh started a partnership with the American Academy of Dermatologists. We are up to our sixth skin cancer screening. It's free, by the way. Out of those 871 firefighters, 236 have either potential or suspected cancer. Firefighters we train every day to literally uh pull out a firefighter if he gets trapped in a fire. Like, why aren't we training every day to prevent cancer?

Voiceover 0:45

Welcome to Responder Resilience, along with my co-host, Bonnie Rimoli, LCSW EMT. I'm David Dashinger. Today we're gonna dive into an urgent topic that impacts every firefighter, that's cancer prevention. Join us as we speak with FDNY Battalion Chief John Hasney about the crucial steps being taken to overcome implementation barriers within the fire service. And from the creation of the FDNY contamination reduction work group to the importance of partnerships promoting skin cancer screenings, we'll explore how departments can actively reduce risks and protect our heroes. We invite you to like and subscribe, YouTube Responder Resilience, Facebook Responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Go to our website, responderTV.com for past episodes of guest information. This episode is made possible by the First Responder Center for Exports. Discover more at FirstResponderCenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. Our resource partner Fight Camp is offering an exclusive deal for viewers of responder resilience. For a limited time, you can get an amazing free package valued at $238, which includes punch crackers, quick wraps, and a free 45-day membership trial. Don't miss out. Email us at inforresponderTV.com with the subject line Fight Camp to claim your free package today. We'll be right back to speak with Chief Hasting after this. In this family, more of us die by our own hands and by the hazards of the job.

SPEAKER_07 2:11

In this family, up to a quarter of 911 telecommunicators have symptoms of post-traumatic stress. In this family, our mental health and wellness are in high stress, and our respondents are quietly suffering.

Bonnie Rumilly 2:23

In this family, many struggle with dropping stress.

Voiceover 2:32

In this family, we do host AT RAM. Our guest today is Battalion Chief John Hasty, who served the FDMY since 2005. Currently he's assigned to Battalion 44. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Fire Science from John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a master's degree in security studies from the Naval Postgraduate School, the Center for Homeland Defense and Security. He served in the New York Army National Guard from 2004 to 2012, and he's an Afghanistan operation enduring freedom combat veteran. He's also founding and active member of the FDNY contamination reduction work group, which began in 2017, and it was created to reduce the members' exposure to fireground contaminants that cause cancer-related deaths and disabilities. Chief, welcome to Responder Resilience.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Bonnie. Thank you for having me.

Bonnie Rumilly 3:48

You're welcome. Thank you for your service.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

Thank you for your service. Back at you.

Voiceover 3:54

It'd be great if you could just start giving us a little background on your journey within the FDNY and kind of what inspired you to pursue the contamination reduction in the fire department.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Uh what inspired me to start is um when I was uh a measly little lieutenant. I'm sorry, Dave, but when I was uh back in uh Queens in NGO 287, I meant uh I met a chief. Uh his name was Frankly, he's uh he was one of your guest speakers uh a few episodes ago, is where he literally inspired me. He said, Hey, do you want to take uh uh a master's degree program called the Naval Postgraduate Degree Program? And uh a part of a the one of the uh things you have to do when you take a master's degree is you have to write a thesis. So he said, I'm I admit I'm a very undecided person sometimes, and he's like, You should write about firefighter cancer. And I was like, hell yeah, you know, anything that could help the brothers and sisters and prevent uh what I feel is a preventable thing from getting uh firefighter occupational cancer and unfortunately being injured or dying from it. So he inspired me uh and I wrote on it. Uh also uh additional inspiration was my uh my mother also had breast cancer, so it definitely hit close to home. And uh then also with the uh while I was writing the thesis, it it was also an additional motivation, is I had uh unfortunately some close uh firefighter friends actually die from occupational cancer. Uh so going to their funerals and seeing them suffer through it was uh uh an unfortunate motivation to keep writing and to keep doing.

Voiceover 5:32

So I imagine writing a thesis is a deep dive into a topic like this. What did you what did you learn that you didn't know before? Like what were some of the things, the takeaways that you thought were really notable?

SPEAKER_04 5:43

Uh the takeaways is to me uh um uh was positive was that we provide the membership with the the tools, the resources, and encouragement and the supportive leadership that we can overcome to me again, which I think is a uh at least reducing firefighter cancer rates, like if we're able to give them the resources, the inspiration, the education, that it it it is a disease that can be either reduced or overcome.

Bonnie Rumilly 6:16

What are the main objectives um of the work group? So you mentioned a couple, but are there some other pieces of it that you think would be important for our listeners or viewers if they wanted to think about creating such a program at their own department?

SPEAKER_04 6:30

Yes. Well, one of the end takes of the thesis was to create a work group. The FDMY was uh inspired in 2017 with the new research coming out, especially with uh the research that I don't know if you're f familiar with the study that you know if you just have uh DCON on scene, you take away 80% of DCon, and if you use wipe, you take away 50%. But we weren't doing that in the FDMY, you know. So we uh that was definitely one influential study that said we need to look at what we're doing, what we have done, and uh change or uh things. So we looked at the first step that we did was we looked at our past initiatives that the FDMY, we actually, when we were starting to research, we're like, wow, the FDMI actually has done a lot already. Where we already some fire departments, even these days, they don't have the vehicle exhaust capture system. We had that since the 80s. So we already have two sets of gear, we already uh we already have an uh in-house laundering service, we already have our gear cleaned twice a year and stuff like that. So it was finding things that we are missing. So we in regards to the research, we said, Alright, we we are seeing that the wipes are effective. Let's get wipes for the units. So we got wipes for the units. So now at every fire, there are wipes available on on the fire trucks, or what we have uh is a uh what we call rack units, recuperation units. They come, they have wipes. So now wipes are available for the membership and stuff like that. Uh we redid uh we obviously had to update our uh our our books, our manuals to reflect these new uh uh things that we found in studies and write, you know, uh rehabilit rehabilitation bulletin where we to address these new uh procedures and we uh initiated hey, you should start cleaning your cab. We put that in the bulletin because the research says that you should clean your cab and stuff like that. So, what was your question again?

Bonnie Rumilly 8:38

No, you answered it. Um, I'm actually gonna go off.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

I can keep going, you know. I like uh We love it.

Bonnie Rumilly 8:45

We love listening. Um, you know, I'm sitting here thinking about what you're saying, and it made me wonder to ask you how much do you think 9-11 and and post-9-11 world has influenced a lot of the cancer awareness and the exposure to toxins?

SPEAKER_04 9:01

In an unfortunate way, yes, 9-11 has humongously influenced the uh definitely the FDNY. Where uh literally, I worked yesterday, there was an unfortunately uh every time a FDNY firefighter dies, they announce it on the radio and stuff like that, there was a firefighter that died. So uh it wasn't just uh we try to reinforce with the the the members is that uh it wasn't just the the members that died on 9-11. Three, you know, the famous number 343 firefighters died. Now be w with the uh contamination that these members took in uh heroically at ground zero, trying to find the brothers and the sisters and the civilians that they contracted all occupational cancer while there, and that number is far above 343 more members that have died just from occupational cancer, not on 9-11. That's just 9-11 related, where we also try to reinforce with members that uh not to focus also just on the 9-11 members because you are at risk, even if you weren't at 9-11, you could still get occupational cancer. And you try with again, I would have to look up the numbers too again, but we're still losing members, not from 9-11 cancer, you know.

Bonnie Rumilly 10:25

It seems like it was such a driving factor in um this topic being opened up as wide as it has been in the last, you know, 10 to 15 years, like you said. So thanks for answering that.

SPEAKER_05 10:38

No, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_07 10:40

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Voiceover 11:44

So, Chief, you've been involved with some uh pretty cool initiatives for cancer screening, and we'll get into that shortly. But um, with all that said, have there been any challenging moments related to firefighter health or sort of navigating as a leader, you know, maybe somebody uh some of your members who have dealt with cancer or just seeing, you know, seeing what they're going through. Like, what are the challenging aspects of being a uh a leader in the FDNY in in terms of cancer?

SPEAKER_04 12:13

Shaking the member and asking them please to listen kind of thing, you know, where uh as uh Dave, you know, and I'm sure Bonnie, even on the EMS side, there is a uh culture that you have to fight, and it's where you know we're so used to just running into burning buildings and you know living the dangerous edge all the time that you know we're so used to danger, you try to explain to a firefighter that please wear your mask, you know, you know, like please, you know, you might not get cancer tomorrow, but you'll get it 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. But a firefighter lives for the now, you know, as or humans live for the now. And you you know, you try that's the you know the challenging aspect of uh uh fighting the culture, and you know, uh if you want to go into I'm sure you heard uh you know, the badge of honor with dirty bunker gear and stuff like that. Yeah, where it it it it it's where you try to like please clean your gear, please go take a shower, you know, and but firefighters are firefighters, they wanna, you know, get back on the rig and go fight another fire, but it's like can you take a minute to take a shower to change out your gear? But it's you you are fighting the culture, you know? That's what I feel.

Bonnie Rumilly 13:36

So being a therapist, I always want to go for the feelings aspect of all of this. Um, you mentioned your mom having cancer. I'm wondering how that impacted your view on all of these things. And did you find yourself making personal changes in your daily habits as a firefighter because of that?

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Oh yeah, I admit I'm 100% not perfect. Uh like I'll admit I catch myself not, especially as a chief officer. Uh I should be leading by example, but I admit I catch myself sometimes. I'm not wearing my mask when I should, you know, because as a chief officer, you're supposed to be really uh using your mouth and yelling the mic and stuff like that. But definitely I force myself to try to wear my mask more. I force myself to change whenever I do have a fire, I try to change out my gear because again, we are lucky in the FDMY, we have two sets of gear. So it's more just the effort of the FDMY firefighter to literally just change their gear, is you know, moving their tools from one pocket to another, you know. Uh I try to encourage members to wear their masks, uh, you know, definitely as a leader. I remember again, I'm a battalion chief now, but when I was a captain uh in a uh engine company in the Bronx, I made my members. I'm like, you no one take your mask off. You know, as a captain, you definitely have a lot more influence because it is at least in the F to Y, it's your company, and you set policy for that company. So whenever you're working with me, you're wearing your mask throughout the fire, like put it back on, you know. Even if the truck company has it off, put it back on. Or even I admit, I've uh when I had a little time, I would start saying to the truck company, I'm like, put your mask back on. And I admit one firefighter, it was very inspirational for me, and hopefully for him, he's like, Yeah, I'm a uh he's like you're F and right. And he's like, he put his mask back on, you know. He's like, Why am I doing this?

Voiceover 15:30

So right, the air is free, as we say, right?

SPEAKER_04 15:33

Yeah, well, again, to me, uh, the saying was if you have air in your cylinder, keep it on, you know. Yeah, yeah.

Voiceover 15:39

Yeah, and I think we've we've come a long way in terms of uh doing overhaul, where we used to take off the mask and you know, go in there and jump in and start pulling walls and ceilings and you know, cooling stuff down. But now um now with better metering, especially with different culture, we're starting to wear a mask throughout that process as well, because there's a lot of bad stuff off-gassing.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Uh oh, that's the worst time of a fire, it's actually the overhauling part because that's when it's really off-gassing, you know, and it's sticking in the air. That's that's when you want to wear your mask for the most part, you know.

Voiceover 16:07

Right. And just as a side question, has the culture of air management changed now with all this? Because um, you know, if we're wearing our masks more, obviously we need to kind of get the most out of uh an air bottle as we can. Is anything shifted in terms of how we're managing air on the fire ground?

SPEAKER_04 16:23

Yes, where at least uh the FDNY wise, is we are trying to be more self-conscious. And uh at least a program that's been going on with the FDNY is uh when you transmit a fire, we you and we call it you transmit the all hands is saying that you have a working fire, is that you will get an extra uh engine and truck automatically. And those engine or truck are supposed to be used for relief companies to relieve those companies inside that are usually the first two companies so that are going as they you're gonna run out of air because you've been in there, you fought the fire, you really sucked through your bottle. So it's a less to force them not to take off their mask because they ran out of air, and it is you have a company ready to go that is fresh bottles that could go right in and relieve that company right on scene, waiting, literally standing next to them. So it's definitely more, it is more. I feel like chiefs are also more aware of uh when the viber alert goes off. We have viber alerts on our masks, and you can hear it when a uh officer transmits or a firefighter transmit. And chiefs these days have definitely you're relieved. If you hear uh air cylinder going, you know, a vibrant alert going off, chiefs are automatically relieving them. Like you're done.

Bonnie Rumilly 17:42

That's good to hear. Um, what are some of the support systems around the diagnosis of cancer that are currently existing? What can people access, you know, just behaviorally, emotionally, for their family?

SPEAKER_04 17:57

At least again, I'm not uh I will say Bonnie, I'm not too much of an expert on that, but uh at least the FDMY uh Kane will be able to speak to this more, is where uh we do have a counseling support unit that is full-time, that every officer knows the number that you could call. That uh usually we all we'll also have a we're lucky enough to have a full-time medical office. So you will be talking to a doctor. You know, usually they're very good doctors though. They deal with firefighters and firefighter cancer all the time. And we'll I'm sure they will refer you to you know the appropriate doctor and uh the appropriate counseling unit service. Never mind, uh not even the uh non-official where you know uh as uh I don't know the culture of the fire department will they also support you throughout it, the brothers and the sisters where the union peer support. The union peer support, you know, literally we'll dropping off meals. Uh we have uh the FDMY is also locked in, but we have a uh it's called the transport service, is where the memberships actually do fundraisers all the time and they buy vans that are used to transport members and families to doctors' appointments. To so if a member is going through chemo or they will have someone dedicated to them with a van that will drive them to chemo appointments, to you know, radiation appointments and stuff like that. So the support is you know, the firehouses are there, the the the department is there.

Bonnie Rumilly 19:35

That's incredible to hear, really, that they would dedicate that for people. So, you know, I think you have a lot of supports in place, and we've spoken to your behavioral unit. I mean, what the work that is done in your department, especially, I think is a model for other agencies, and they look up to you all because of the proactive nature of the work. So it's really impressive.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Thank you. So uh to the other way too, w uh when I've been involved with this, I look also I know everyone look you know looks up to the FDNY, but please pass around. We look down well, not down to them, we look up to them too. Is where like I've many asked a uh a fellow firefighter in another department, hey, do you have a procedure on this? Do you have this? Because it you know, why reinvent the wheel twice? You know, so there uh many uh initiatives I've seen where I've been inspired by that. Hey, why aren't we doing that here? Why don't we have this on our rake? So we very much look up to other departments as well.

Bonnie Rumilly 20:35

And that's well said. It it's one big giant circle, right? We're all we're all helping others and receiving the help. So as long as you're open to it, and I mean it's an incredible thing.

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Voiceover 21:33

So, Chief, I want to kind of move to that proactive piece, and that's um you've had some initiatives to screen for stuff like skin cancer. Can you talk a little bit about that? How does that work? The logistics, the buy-in, all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Oh, yeah. Well, I'll start with the original story if you want to say. So again, in it was around uh 2023, uh Frank Leaf uh introduced me to uh Russ Osgood. He's a uh chief in Maine, and he is uh one of the main uh firefighter cancer support network members. And he said he came to me and said, Hey, is the FDI interested in doing uh free cancer skin cancer screens? So I said, Yeah, I'll take that over. So then ever since then uh we've uh started a partnership with the American Academy of Dermatologists, uh where we are up to our sixth skin cancer screening, it's free by the way, uh, where um with our partnership uh uh with the Academy, they literally have proposed to their membership uh that firefighters are gravely at risk, and we have a 20, sorry, I'm cheating here, a 21% greater risk of uh getting skin cancer. So they said we're a at-risk population, and they are literally getting their members, which is again amazing, to volunteer their time to give us free skin cancer screenings. So literally this Saturday is gonna be our sixth skin care uh free cancer screening in Staten Island at a firehouse, and uh they literally the the dermatologists they come volunteer their time, and uh we uh we put out sign-ups about a month before. We uh notify our membership through what we call uh buck slips, their internal notices to the departments. We have the unions, thank god for the unions. Uh the unions email all the membership. We have two firefighters, we have a firefighter union and an officer union, they email the membership. Uh we put up on video displays, and uh we've had an amazing uh response. So, like so far, over five screenings, cheating again, sorry, we've had uh 871 firefighters come. Uh like it's one of the top screenings out there, and but the the so the shocking aspect, which is every time I email uh the unions and the leadership, is that out of those 871 firefighters, 236 have either potential or suspected cancers. So that's 27%. So it to me, 27% of people screened have either potential or suspected cancer by the dermatologist. They don't do any uh you know, cutting stuff off or they don't do biopsies, right? They don't do it there, but they say, hey, you need to go get that checked, you know, by a dermatologist in their office and have a biopsy. But it it's a great it's a great initiative, and I recommend uh uh if uh a department wants to do it, literally either contact your local fire cancer support network and say, Hey, I want to get a free skin cancer training, or contact the American Academy of Dermatologists and say, Hey, I want a free skin scancation, and they'll try to set it up for you. It's it's a one of the top initiatives I feel like we're doing right now.

Voiceover 24:56

What kind of uh feedback are you getting in terms of buy-in and you know, people that are um we're we're booked out for Saturday, you know.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

It it we sent it a month in advance. I feel like this one we it was filled within a couple days. Wow. So it's uh I feel like unfortunately, the limiting factor is the dermatologist is where you we have tons of firefighters that want to do it, but again, it they are volunteering their time. And it's like you, you know, if we could have 10 dermatologists, that'd be amazing, but you know, but they are volunteering their time. So, you know.

Bonnie Rumilly 25:31

Well, we're talking about skin cancer. Can you elaborate on some of the other common cancers that will be associated with the job that you're looking at or that people are talking about in these initiatives?

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Uh again, throat uh Mike as uh Mike Champo is a big uh uh name on the FDNY where you know head he had head and neck and cancer. So we've seen uh we've had a couple videos of him speaking about you know what he went through and stuff like that. So when you have that again, I I consider Mike a leader in the department, you know, he it's where that's big. And I hope skin cancer has become a big thing too, especially with all the guys coming. But you see all kinds of uh colon cancer. Like I'm just trying to think of the firefighters I know that have died. Uh my again, one of my if you want to go back to the inspirations for as I told you, some of uh my close buddies died, died of brain cancer. Uh, you know, uh again, corectal, yeah. Testicular cancer is baked too on the FDA, yeah, on the fire department and stuff like that. Those are definitely unfortunately too many types of cancers, you know.

Voiceover 26:40

Right, right. It's like it speaks to the fact that unfortunately, like there's not one size fits all in terms of screening, right? There's like some of these require much more elaborate physicals or say blood, uh blood draws or different kinds of scans. Uh so there's so many cancers, they're all different, they're all they all have different prognoses and uh treatments and and screening procedures, so that kind of complicates it.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Yeah, but we try to reinforce the membership. If you notice a change in your demeanor, you know, your health, go get checked because it, you know, especially I think I forgot what the uh what three weeks. If you have the same thing for three weeks or something like that, uh that's bothering you, go get checked. Yeah, yeah.

Voiceover 27:19

Yeah, we ran a PSA about that with uh Jason Patton a while back that uh I think it was filmed at the rock, actually.

SPEAKER_04 27:25

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to remember.

Bonnie Rumilly 27:27

Like you get involved so many things, you're trying to remember the uh it's interesting because two things come to mind for me when we're talking about this. One is you're talking about people who generally are very stoic and you know they feel strong and they feel um maybe they don't want to be going to doctors. So there's that sort of stigma that we're fighting.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

Welcome to the culture again.

Bonnie Rumilly 27:52

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

I'm a strong firefighter. Why do I need to go to a doctor? Yes.

Bonnie Rumilly 27:56

Exactly. So you're kind of fighting that, but then second of all, I'm sure there's partly, well, okay, what am I gonna do with that? Then I have to face that. And a lot of the first responders I see in my office, um, you know, they're going through their days, they're so busy, they're working so many hours. I feel like these types of things sometimes go down the list because it's not happening in this moment, right in front of their face.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Well, at least to speak to that, like at least with again, yeah, and back to the skin cancer screening, is where the great again, thank God for the FDMY leadership. Uh, so let's say we are having this, just an example for the one on Saturday. We are having this screening on Staten Island. The FDMI leadership has said, hey, if you're working, we will allow the uh the units that are actually working to come to this screening. They'll come in dribs and drabs, but they'll say, hey, if a Staten Island fire company wants to come, they again, if you're working, you could go get a free cancer cancer skin cancer screening, you know? And we actually I think we average around nine companies per screening that actually come down while they're working just to get screened and stuff like that.

Bonnie Rumilly 29:10

Well, and the other take-home, it seems obvious, but as a woman, you know, they tell us how to look for breast cancer and how to look for changes, and we're supposed to be checking ourselves monthly. Um, but I think responders are so good at being vigilant about everybody else, but not themselves. So it seems like the one obvious thing smacking me here is you have to be vigilant about your own body. If there's something that's off or different, like you said, if it's been going on three weeks, get it checked. But um I think that this population is so good at everybody else, and there's a lot of work that needs to get done internally. So to me, that's a take-home is watch your body.

Voiceover 29:52

Right. We all we want a quick fix, right? So even if we go to a skin cancer screening and they say, hey, you need to follow up on this with another appointment, and sometimes this whole cancer diagnosis like process takes multiple appointments, and then if you need to get treatment, then you're talking weeks or months of treatment. So, first responders, we want stuff done fast, right? We want to want quick results, and and that's kind of like the opposite, right? We'd have to go down a long, long process that could possibly take us off the line for a while. So um, yeah, it's it's hard to, you know, it's hard to get enthusiastic about something that's um that could be so difficult on you know our way of life.

SPEAKER_04 30:29

It is about educating them though, to make them aware that, hey, the three weeks, hey, you know, uh uh at least when or at the skin's cancer tree, we try to give them a little education, like, hey, this is what you should be looking for, and changes in size and color and shape, like given the education aspect as well, you know. And then I always like to reinforce too, where uh unfortunately a lot of uh occupational cancers happen after you retire. So trying to, you know, even after you retire, please keep getting checked and or even doing the aspect of uh hey, maybe you should start wearing your mask so you could have a 20-year retirement, a 30-year retirement, you know. Unfortunately, you see guys and gals uh die two years after they get off the fire department, you know, with cancer.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

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Bonnie Rumilly 33:22

Are there any ways in which um the department is looking at specific sexes and in terms of like female or male and what might be unique to one of the things?

SPEAKER_04 33:33

At least uh uh I am uh the the head FDMY liaison of where the FDMI is a member of uh there's a substudy called the Women's Firefighter Study of the uh firefighter cancer uh cancer cohort study, right? FFCCS, I mean too many acronyms. Uh that uh the FDMY is a membership of. So we have about a hundred women of the a thousand that are currently involved in the study that this study is testing uh new probationary, we call it probationary firefighters, new firefighters, and their exposures over uh 18 to 18 to 24 month cycle to see what changes they have in uh like their biomarkers that are for cancer and stuff like that, for their stress levels, how is stress influencing them, and also what is uh the what how is uh the being with the stress and the uh exposure influencing there reproductive. And at least that's what one of the definite initiatives the FDMY is in positive right now.

Bonnie Rumilly 34:40

So, John, if you could wave a magic wand tomorrow and firefighter cancer in general across the entire fire service would be in a better place. What would that look like?

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Perfect world is uh again, everyone following their best practices that are known. That's what my thesis is about. We like we know these best practices, like what's stopping us? So it's every firefighter literally wearing their mask, uh coming out and getting decontaminated, uh keeping the the cab clean, uh changing out their gear, like getting it washed, taking the shower before they clean the tools in in the fire truck, before they go back in service, taking the shower, you know, keeping a clean firehouse, not wearing your bunker gear in the firehouse, you know, like it the per you know, keeping uh the you know different zones in the firehouse, you know. You know, you don't bring your bunker gear where we eat in the kitchen or in the the the TV room and stuff like that. You you keep it, you know. You don't put uh we didn't even talk about you don't put your gear in the trunk of your car. Uh because that's right next to your kids' baseball uh mit, you know, you you're gonna affect your kids. That's wow, perfect world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish, you know.

Voiceover 36:02

Which is um something that affects a lot of volunteer firefighters, right? They carry their gear with them and they gotta, you know, they gotta show up on the scene or at the firehouse with the gear. So how do you do that? You know, not expose your kids to the put it in a black bag at least, you know.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Put it in a bag that at least isolate a plastic bag that isolates it, and put it in a container that at least isolates it from your kids' gear, you know, something, you know.

SPEAKER_05 36:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

Have it clean. Have it as long as it's clean, you know, is it clean and in a plastic bag? Now you double, you know, safety kind of thing, you know.

Bonnie Rumilly 36:31

Yeah, that's well, and some departments have special um classified biohazard units downstairs, like washers and dryers, especially for uh extractors, they're called extractors, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

Yes, where uh the FDMY we have uh in-house uh unit that is able to uh we are unfortunately not lucky enough to have them in every firehouse due to I think the the FDMY infrastructure is quite old. Uh I think the average age of a firehouse in the FDMY is like 90 years. You know, so the uh 90-year-old electric and uh plumbing is not good for an extractor or you know, or a uh uh heavy duty dryer. So, you know, yeah. So, you know, uh if you could have an extractor and a dryer in every firehouse, again, if that's the perfect world for me, you know.

Voiceover 37:26

Right. Yeah. And we're starting to see uh mobile decon units. Some departments are actually outfitting trucks where they can go to the incident and change out the gear, people get people cleaned up and into new gear um right on scene so they can clear and go to the Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

I've been uh speaking of I there was one of those phone calls I've done lately to figure out what yeah uh what companies uh I told I called my friend in Florida, he's involved in a uh department down there that's doing that, and I just picked his brain on what he's doing and stuff like that, and he might have won me over with that where I might uh start proposing that, you know?

Voiceover 37:58

Yeah, absolutely.

Bonnie Rumilly 38:00

Well, the take-home is we have all of this knowledge now, research, information. It's time to be preventative. So vigilant, yes, but preventative and proactive is I think the way of the future from everything you've said today.

SPEAKER_04 38:17

Yeah, if we could be proactive, you know, instead of reactive, but unfortunately culture of the fire department is reactive, not proactive, you know. So you try to get ahead of the game before, you know.

Bonnie Rumilly 38:28

Well, and that's what we're trying to do with mental health too. So we're fight we're all fighting sort of the same old school stigmas um to do all of our initiatives, but we're getting there. We're making headway.

SPEAKER_04 38:40

I and oh it's definitely even since we started in 2017, you definitely uh uh being the not the outsider, but looking from the outside is you can see the FDN, the culture of the FDMY has shifted. Where uh we equated the FDMY because we're so large to you're turning a an aircraft carrier, you know, you're not gonna turn an aircraft carrier on a dime, you know. So it it it's a slow turn, but it's turning.

Voiceover 39:06

Where can people find you out there, like social media, LinkedIn, anything like that?

SPEAKER_04 39:10

Uh I am on LinkedIn. Uh I usually I admit I don't check it every while. I check it every once in a while just to see. You know, I'm not on it every day. Uh yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. Uh again, I don't know if you guys are gonna put my email. Please feel free to email me or you know, I'll gladly send you my thesis and stuff like that if you want to read it all about, you know, it's 150 pages, but you can just read the executive summary if you want. You know, read the read the conclusions, the recommendations. But uh yeah, that's where you can find me.

Voiceover 39:38

Okay, yeah, it's a great thesis. Um, you sent it uh to me back when we first made contact, so appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

Did you read it or you actually did the executive summary?

Voiceover 39:46

I had to go to the executive summary, you know. It's like uh I'm I'm like eyes glaze over when I look at that much data, but the takeaways are important and and you're doing super important work. You're sort of setting the tone for um you know for generations. uh the new generations of firefighters to have a healthier, happier, more successful, not only career but also retirement. So thank you for all that work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

No, not at all. You know, it's just I hopefully could educate firefighters, you know, uh trying to educate firefighters to at least make them aware and you know that they are capable of doing it to try to the win over the leadership to have their back and lead by example and stuff like that. And uh and then once again from the conclusion for you know please start a work group. If you don't have a work group already that's specifically uh you know focused on uh preventing cancer and also mental health mental health is huge you know another aspect of have a work group that is literally just focused on that that you'll be able to change your department you know I uh my well well I was just saying my uh final uh word if you want to say is that uh I don't know if they've read at the end is like we firefighters we train every day to literally uh pull out a firefighter if he gets trapped in a fire like why aren't we training every day to prevent cancer?

Bonnie Rumilly 41:02

You know tell uh you could literally do something simple as tell your brother sister right next to you keep your mask on and they you might even make them think twice like oh crap yeah you're right I should you know so and I want to thank you um on behalf of the three of us on responder resilience just for your leadership qualities and for everything you're doing for everyone in your own department and around you um it's admirable the work that you've put into this topic.

SPEAKER_04 41:29

No I always say no no thank you is needed it's a you know it is me about saving the brothers and the sisters you know like I always say if if I save one person it's it's worth it all you know absolutely understood.

Voiceover 41:41

All right thank you great speaking with you today thanks for sharing your time remember to like and subscribe YouTube responder resilience Facebook responder TV LinkedIn Apple Podcasts Spotify and go to our website respondertv.com for past episodes and guest information. Till the next time stay safe be kind to yourself take care of the microphone