Clinician’s Guide to In-Patient Treatment Facilities | S5 E6

SPEAKER_04 0:00

We do the traditional talk therapy, you know, which is the group therapy, the one-on-one with your therapist. But then we also have a holistic approach for, you know, working mind and body. And to be in a therapeutic environment where you're you're getting that care you need, you know, every day, whether it's group therapy, individual therapy, your family, your wife, your spouse, whoever needs you at 100%. So you can take the time now and work on yourself and be better. So you can have the foundation to go back and hit the ground running, or you can just keep kicking the can down the road and and you know applying some band-aids that are not working.

Voiceover 0:45

Welcome to Responder Resilience, along with my co-hosts, Dr. Stacey Raymond and Bonnie Rumley, LCSW EMT, I'm David Dashinger. In this episode, we're going to be speaking with retired police commander and shatterproof community liaison lead at FEG Health, Patrick Fitzgibbons, about specialized addiction and mental health treatment programs for first responders. Catch all our episodes by liking and subscribing. YouTube, Responder Resilience, Facebook, Responder Wellness, Inc., and Responder TV. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, LinkedIn. Go to our website, responderTV.com for past episodes and guest information. This episode is made possible by the First Responder Center for Excellence. Discover more at FirstresponderCenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. We'll be right back to speak with Patrick after this.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

In this family, more of us die by our own hands and by the hazards of the job.

SPEAKER_07 1:36

In this family, up to a quarter of 911 telecommunicators have symptoms of post-traumatic stress. In this family, our mental health and wellness are in high risk, while responders are quietly suffering.

Voiceover 1:48

In this family, many struggle with job-related stress, burnout, injuries, disruption, sophisticated, and relationship problems. In this family, we have vital information and resources, resilience strategies, and success stories of overcoming the obstacles.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Welcome to Respire Resilience. Co-host retired lieutenant David Dashinger, Dr. Stacey Raymond, and finality, LCSW EFTV.

Voiceover 2:28

I'd like to welcome back our friend Patrick Fitzgibbons, who is a retired police commander from Colorado with over two decades of experience. He holds advanced degrees in business and organizational leadership and is pursuing an MS in mental health clinical counseling. A former Army paratrooper with the 82nd Airborne Division, Patrick supports active military veterans and first responders. As a personal coach and the host of award-winning podcast, Criminal Justice Evolution, Pat shares his journey through depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation. Currently, he serves as a shatterproof community liaison lead at FHE Health, a specialized treatment program for first responders. And you can find Pat at TJEvolution.com. Welcome back. Pat, good to see you.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

Oh, Dave, thank you so much for uh it's good to see everybody and uh thank you for inviting me back on.

SPEAKER_07 3:19

Sure. So uh Patrick, I'd like to start by asking you to just start sharing a little bit about your background and uh what inspired you to become involved in specialized treatment for first responders.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

Well, thank you. Uh thank you, Stacey. Uh my background, you know, I was a police officer for for many years prior to that. Uh I was in the military, like the great intro, by the way, Dave. Um but uh yeah, so when I retired in 2019, um, you know, like most law enforcement or first responders that retire, I thought, you know, my job was behind me. But, you know, I slowly started losing my identity, you know, who I was, and I went through uh some rough bouts to say the least. Uh got severely depressed, um, you know, lost my identity. Uh, my son attempted suicide. He's fine, but that kind of pushed me uh further in down to the depression because I blamed myself. Um, went through a horrible divorce. Um, and I never forget when my son uh attempted to take his life. I remember watching him on the on the kitchen floor, and every all the trauma that I was, you know, that I had suppressed over the years came flooding back, you know, and I was trying to balance that, take care of him. Uh and again, he's he's doing great, he's thriving, but that really hit me hard. Like I said, I I blame myself coupled with you know losing my identity. My dad passed away, went through a horrible divorce. So I found myself at one point, you know, with a gun to my head, you know, uh, you know, going to kill myself. And I was drinking heavily, you know. Um I'm in recovery now, but I was drinking heavily. Um, and long story short, I put the gun down and and reached out for for help. Uh it was the hardest thing I ever did. I had to put my ego and fear aside, but uh I'm glad I did. And ended up down in Florida, where I am right now, in South Florida. I went through a program called Shatterproof uh through FHE Health. It's a program designed specifically for first responders. And when I mean first responders, Stacey, it's not just cops, it's fire, it's EMS, it's corrections, it's you know, uh paramedics, uh all the whole gambit. Uh I was here inpatient for about 35 days. And I remember about two weeks in, uh I started feeling really good. I was, you know, we'll talk about the different treatment modalities we have here, but um I knew I was on uh the road to recovery when uh when a good friend of mine, I used to supervise, you know, I told a few people, obviously my family, my kids, I have two adult children. Um I told them where I was going down to get help. And I remember a buddy of mine, really good friend of mine, uh, he called me up and he he said, you know, hey, how's it going? I said, I'm doing great, I feel great. Um, I'm glad I came down here. And he said, Hey, you know, some of the guys, you know how cops are they we're you know, talk and rumors start flying, even though I was retired. And he said, Do you mind if I tell people where you're at? And I said, Absolutely, tell them where I'm at. Uh that was the first time I wasn't fearful, I wasn't shy, I wasn't afraid, I put my ego aside, and um because if if my story was a chance to help somebody else, then I was all for it. Yeah, and so it was interesting, you know. Um my therapist when I was down here at Shatterproof, a great, great person, great woman. And she was my primary, and so about I was getting ready to discharge about a week or two out, and I said, you know, I'd love to work here. I would love to to start giving back more than I ever did as a cop. And and uh I gave back like all you have given back in your respective careers, but and uh lo and behold, I went back to Colorado, and uh about I don't know, five months later, I got a call from the CEO and he said, Hey, I understand you want to you know work with us. And I said, Yeah, I'd love to. You know, and I never worked in behavioral health, but I said, I'd love to. So I have a couple of graduate degrees. They're they're not uh obviously coming to work, but um I started out in business development, which is uh basically acting as a liaison of all the different agencies you know, and helping with logistics and getting people down here. So I did that for a couple years, and about a year ago I was asked to come down and and be part of the clinical team, which I jumped at that offer too. So uh I was living in Arizona at the time for a couple years in Scottsdale, and uh I jumped at the offer and came down here and uh now I'm part of this amazing team. I'm actually one of the program leads now. Um yeah, so I'm I'm helping to run the program along with another program lead and then director. So I'm I'm truly blessed, you know. And uh we have an opportunity to help first responders from all around the country. We get people from as far as Alaska clients that come down here. And uh it's truly an amazing program. So I'm I'm just just glad to be here.

Bonnie Rumilly 8:30

Well, your story is very inspiring, and we're grateful that you got the help that you needed. And your story also shows post-traumatic growth, which is something that we touch on here sometimes, and what you can do when you face your trauma, your depression, your anxiety, all of those things that hold you back in life when you face them, who you can be after. So I hope that our listeners, viewers, um, can see so clearly the way that we can and how you just captured that eloquently.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

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SPEAKER_04 10:20

Well, I would say that's a great question, Bonnie. I would say the environment. You know, the environment is still, you know, it's very challenging. It's always been challenging, you all you all three of you know, but you know, we're we're we're still in that uh you know, that mode. Uh a lot of jurisdictions, municipalities of, you know, they don't have a favorable uh view on uh a lot of first responders. I guess you know, it depends on where you're at, but I think another uh challenge is actually the stigma behind mental health. You know, I think we've come a long way. Uh I remember going to critical incidents when I was a young police officer, and it was, okay, do your paperwork, go back on the street. There wasn't any kind of debrief, there wasn't any kind of seeking, you know, any kind of uh mental health services or anything like that. So I think we've gained ground in that regard. But there still is a big, big uh, you know, elephant in the room or gorilla or whatever you want to call it about uh mental health. I think a lot of the, from my perspective, a lot of the younger first responders that come and see us, I think are more willing to talk about their problems, but there's still a big chunk of you know older people, older first responders like me that are you know, they view it as weakness, and uh uh I'm not gonna say anything. So that I think that's gonna be a challenge. You know, it's always gonna be a challenge, but I think it starts with the culture of an agency too.

Voiceover 11:39

So well, as we all go to conferences and see all the different exhibitors, uh, we're seeing more and more um treatment facilities showing up at these events, um, kind of you know, promoting that their services in that light. What do clinicians need to know? What they need to look for when they're recommending a facility to a patient?

SPEAKER_04 11:59

Well, I think they need to know the patient, you know, the background, obviously, the patient, you know. Um we have at FHG Health, we have uh a couple different programs. I, you know, I spent I I work in the shadowproof program, which is uh just for you know first responders, but I think they need to know what the unique challenges, you know, that the the patient they're they're talking to or dealing with, you know, and to you know, place them appropriately in inpatient or whatever services they need. So it's just a matter of having a conversation with the the client and see how we can help them appropriately. Obviously, substance abuse, you know, mental health challenges, some comorbidity issues. So I think that's gonna determine what what uh program they're gonna be in. And that's just not for FG Health, but that's you know, pretty much uh anywhere they want to refer their patient to. Isolation's a big one. You know, you have a high producer, you know, um, and and then they've kind of dropped in their productivity. I think those are obvious signs. So the problem is, is at least from my perspective, uh, Dave, is you know, when I was a a police officer, and especially in those leadership roles, you would see, and I was guilty of it, you would see somebody isolating or, you know, maybe having anger issues, or their temperament is going up, or maybe they're involved in some use of forces or something like that. Right. And I was guilty of it. And oh, it's just so and so, they'll get over it. So intervening is is you know, the big thing is, you know, you know, taking those uh proactive steps to talk to somebody, but yeah, obvious behavioral issues, substance abuse, you know, things like to that uh to that nature is gonna be a key or it should be the key. And you don't even have to be a supervisor to step in peer to peer and say, hey, what's going on? But the problem is so many people are hesitant with doing that.

SPEAKER_07 13:44

Correct. Right. See something, say something. There's there's ways to be watching uh first responders, hey man, I'm worried about you. You're not acting yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_04 13:55

Yeah, absolutely. I think that that, but I I think it's a matter of doing it. You know, we all know what to do. It's just some sometimes we're hesitant, you know. We don't want to be that guy, you know, to to call somebody out.

SPEAKER_07 14:06

Can you articulate for our listeners and viewers, um, what is the benefit of inpatient over outpatient?

SPEAKER_04 14:14

What's the thing? You know, again, I think the benefit is that you're in a you're in a clinical environment. You're here, uh, especially with like uh you're gonna say you're here on shadowproof. It's it's structured, uh which is a lot of times is what uh you know our first responders need. They need some get some structure. And to be in a therapeutic environment where you're you're getting that care you need, you know, every day, whether it's group therapy, individual therapy, uh, some of the holistic uh approaches we do, like you know, getting different types, you know, CBT, DBT, different types of group therapy. Uh we do a lot of advanced breath work, we do uh neurostimulation, neurofeedback, EMDR. So we do, I mean, that's the benefit where you're getting, you know, you're literally yeah, you're just immersed in all these different you know, treatment modalities. That's the benefit of in inpatient.

SPEAKER_07 15:09

Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

Now again, you know, you all know it's gonna depend on the the client, but uh, I think there's so much value in being an inpatient. And I the the thing for me is to see the the transformation. I'm one of the first people that our clients see when they come into eat you know, intake, maybe they're in detox or they're tapering for five, six days, you know, and I go over there and talk to them, and I, you know, you're in a safe place, you're in a safe place, you know. You're gonna be among first responders because a lot of first responders only want to be around first responders. But I think that's the biggest thing with being an inpatient is because we get high acuity in here. And once they're once they're here for a couple weeks, you know, it starts coming down a lot. So that's a huge benefit with being inpatient.

SPEAKER_07 15:53

The other thought I have is that with with inpatient, you know, or as compared to outpatient, outpatient, you can go to your program, you know, whatever it is, a couple hours or whatever, then you can go home and fall apart, or you can or use a substance um and and show your true colors or what you're really struggling with. Whereas inpatient, you don't have in in many cases, you don't have access to your cell phone either. You know, you can make calls at certain times of the day, but obviously you don't have access to um substances. And as time goes by, you can't hide you know those dynamics, those traits that are really troubling you. They are going to surface, especially across 28 to 30 days, you know, and then the staff get to see that. And you know, I think it's a deeper dive. Well, it is a deeper dive. I mean, you're there for a solid month, but you're getting to see the true colors of that first responder. Unlike, you know, a partial hospital program or you know, day hospital or just uh going to a group or individual therapy.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

And that's exactly right, Stacy. And you know, from the time a call is made to FHE to our admissions, you know, we're we're we're looking at these these cases and these, you know, listening to the clients, and you know, this the recommendation a lot of times is you know, you'd benefit from an inpatient uh type of environment, but you're exactly right, they're getting immersed in it. And but the hardest thing is, you know, with that mentality, with especially with like first responders, and again, they're struggling with addiction and and all kinds of other stuff, but getting them to okay, you need to come down here for 30 days or 28 days, whatever that whenever that whatever that's gonna look like. Well, I I can't because you know, I have a vacation or I I have you know the holidays, you know, it's always well, I gotta, you know, yeah. And I I tell patients, look, this is your time. Right. This is your time. You know, and what I you know, I kind of redirect it, you know, back on them sometimes and say, you know, your your your family, your wife, your spouse, whoever needs you at a hundred percent. So you can take the time now and work on yourself and and be better, so you can have the foundation to go back and hit the ground running, or you can just keep kicking the can down the road and and you know, applying some band-aids that are not working. So a lot of times inpatient is is better because you know, you you come down here for 30 days, you know, you you get you you get patched up, figuratively speaking, and we give you some great tools, give you the foundation. The hardest thing about inpatient, you all know this, is when they're in inpatient, and that's this is any program, you know, you're you're in a bubble, you know, you're getting some amazing care, amazing therapists, different treatment modalities. The hardest thing is when you leave. Because you're going back, you're going back to your environment, you're going back to your triggers, you're going back to all the things that probably got you here.

unknown 18:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 19:00

And everyone knows you've been gone for a month, you know.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Well, and what yeah, exactly. And that's I'm glad you hit on that, Stacy. I mean, the one thing that you know therapists are really good at, and me when I too, when I when I talk to clients, is you know, when you're down here, you're getting great care. You know, you we're taking care of you, but you have to understand the people back home, maybe it's a spouse or whatever, they're still reeling from the trauma. So you you have to you you gotta keep that in perspective, you know, that when when the wife is or or spouse or whoever is seeing pictures, you're on the beach, and you're you know, they don't understand the work you're doing down. Right, you know, but they're still they're they're still traumatized for about whatever happens. So you have to realize their point of view, you know.

SPEAKER_07 19:47

Uh so it's Do you include families like uh on the phone or like a couple session?

SPEAKER_04 19:55

Yeah, that's the individual therapist uh do that. We have a lot of resources for families. Family. We actually started a podcast called First Responders Family Podcast at the beginning of last year, and it's really taken off where we have our director of family services who hosts the show. And so there's a lot of resources out there. I'd like to see in the future more. I'd like to see more resources for family. Just because typically, you know, it it's all been geared toward the first responders. Well, the most first responders have a spouse or significant other or something. So they need to be they need to be more into that mix with the healing and the therapy.

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Bonnie Rumilly 21:59

Well, just to go back to something we touched on before, um, again, we know this, but this is more for our viewers and listeners. Why do you think it's so important to first responders to be amongst their own people when they're going through this process?

SPEAKER_04 22:16

That's a great question. And speaking from experience, um, you know, being a patient at Shatterford for a while, I was down here for 35 days. And I I don't think um it's I I think they want to be with their people. Because if we're all first responders on here, uh you you we under we have kind of some of the same thinking. I don't have to explain things to you. If if if uh if I hear some trauma with another first responder, yeah, it's gonna affect me, but it's it's not like it would be if somebody who's a civilian. And I don't mean that in a bad way, if somebody who's a civilian. I'm just saying it's just easier. We have that bond automatically. You know, it doesn't matter where we're from. Um, I was a cop in Colorado. I could be sitting next to a cop from New Jersey, uh, you know, and I think another benefit, um, Bonnie, is first responders, as we all know, are very reluctant to open up. It's a trust thing. So if I'm in a program with all first responders, naturally I'm gonna feel a little bit more trusting. But then the flip side of that is if I'm in group therapy and I was reluctant with really sharing my story, and then I hear a first responder that is pretty much going through the same stuff I am. Maybe it's substance behavior, you know, issues, anger issues, maybe that's gonna give me the push to start opening up and group because we all have shared experiences. Right, you know, everybody the one thing I'm learning is everybody's dealing with kind of the same stuff, whether you're a first responder or not. It could be you know adverse childhood experiences, could be alcohol, abuse of parents. Well, a lot of that first responders deal with in their background. So um I but I think you know when first responders are with each other, that is crucial because they they all speak the lingo. We don't have really explained, you know, certain aspects of the job, whether you're a fire, EMS. We're all you know, we're all first responders. So I think that's critical with keeping them together.

Voiceover 24:15

Well, Pat, earlier you mentioned all the different modalities that are offered at FHE and Shatterproof. Can you explain a little more about um how the interdisciplinary teams work together, operate within those uh inpatient facilities within your program?

SPEAKER_04 24:30

No, we work amazing uh together. You know, we every morning we have clinical rounds, we get you know the director of our breath work in there, EMDR director. You know, we all come together to you know benefit the client. It's it's about the client, you know. We want to make sure that they have a good experience. I'm sure we use things like with EMDR, we you know use like a PCL5 and some other things to look at to kind of measure and gauge, you know, where their trauma is. But you know, the different teams that handle different treatment modalities, you know, neurostimulation, you know, um, you know, EQG, make sure they get brain maps and stuff like that. We all come together and and talk about the patients to to kind of tackle which is the best approach for their for their treatment.

SPEAKER_07 25:16

So it's like a holistic approach, is what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Absolutely. You know, what I when when I when I talk to clients, I I I tell them, you know, especially with somebody's on the phone when I was, you know, they're kind of on the fence whether or not to come. I say we take we do the traditional talk therapy, yeah, which is the group therapy, the one-on-one with your therapist. But then we also have a holistic approach where we're you know, we're working mind and body. So we do advanced breath work, breath work sessions, you know, we do a biobed where it deals a lot with regulating and breath work. We do EMDR, we do you know, yoga, we do acupuncture, you know, we do all these different types of things. We offer ketamine in some cases, you know, it's becoming more popular, you know, especially with veterans and yes and uh you know first responders. It's kind of like a last resort here for us, right? But I've never I I only hear good things about uh ketamine.

SPEAKER_07 26:11

So what are some of the most favorite or preferred?

SPEAKER_04 26:15

Um I think I I get a lot of kudos uh with the EMDR. Yeah, clients love, and I think a lot of it as you know comes down to the it comes down to the practitioner because I've heard clients before they come to Shatterproof said, you know, well, you know, I've done EMDR, you know, back home and it it really didn't do much for me. Okay, well now you're under our care. Why don't why don't you try EMD? You know, your PCL score is pretty high. Why don't we try it with our director? And they absolutely love it. Yes. And that neurostimulation, you know, uh that is that's good too.

SPEAKER_07 26:50

Can you mention a little bit? Just describe in a couple sentences what what is neurostimulation? Is it the neuros tech um where they put the um the magnets? Is it where you're using magnets? Is that the neurostimulation?

SPEAKER_04 27:04

Well, a little uh neurostimulation is we're gonna do a brain, we're gonna put it at different areas of your brain. It's a little cap. And trust me, I'm not the doctor, so I'm just I'm using it in name and stuff. Um, but our techs, um, and it's run by our our director. Uh and they put a cap on you, they get a kind of a map of your brain, they can see where areas of the brain are neurofeedback when they do brain mapping like that. Yeah, well, it's neurofeedback, but neurostimulation, it's a little different. With neurofeedback, it's like a talk kind of therapy. With neuro stimulation, you know, we're putting a cap on, we're getting a scan of your brain, and then through subsequent micro stimulations. I remember remember it's not shock therapy because a lot of people I never want to give it. Remember when I was going through it, they're like, You're shocking my brain? They're like, No, no, it's a little micro stimulations, and they put it strategically in the areas that they want us, uh, you know, center on. So a little neuro stimulation, they give you a screen to look at, uh, and it's it's just I can't describe it, but it is amazing, and it helps you know enhance that neuroplasticity in the brain, correct, kind of regulate the brain again. It works wonders. So most clients get probably on average 13, 14 sessions. I did 18 when I was a and so not only not only the neuro uh stimulation, getting that brain, you know, kind of balanced again, it's all the other treatment modalities that we do coming together, you know. Um, and it just it just works wonders for our clients.

SPEAKER_07 28:32

I'm just really curious about um how do you make sure that you have culturally competent um therapists who know how to work with first responders at your facility.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

Well, we obviously, you know, we do, you know, we look, you know, in the hiring process, they go through a series of interviews. And now let's yeah, it helps, you know, if you have uh it's not a prerequisite to work as a therapist. Uh, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Now we're you know, we're blessed because we have a lot of our therapists that have, you know, they're retired cops, military stuff like that. So that's a bonus. But we have other, you know, uh therapists that don't have that, and they're amazing therapists. So, you know, it's like any other organization, Stacey. You know, we we you know do interviews, we know ask some questions, you know, kind of get a gauge whether or not they're gonna, you know, fit well uh within the program. And okay. Uh, but we're we're blessed, you know. Uh we really are. We have all of our therapists are amazing. We have some pretty young therapists, and then we have some older therapists. So we maybe if we have uh uh you know a couple younger clients coming in, we will, you know, if it's appropriate, we'll put them with the the younger therapist so they can correct uh but you know we have great therapists, but it's just like any other thing, you know, any other job, you know, they're gonna get vetted, they're gonna ask questions, they're gonna kind of get engaged. We interview, I interview the director and the other program lead. They'll you know, we'll kind of meet with them and see if they'd be a good fit. But it is a unique position because you all three of you know, you know, dealing with first responders, I shouldn't say dealing, but working with first responders uh is is quite different. You know, first responders see trauma uh on a daily basis. Most people have trauma in their life, but not to the degree as first responders on a daily basis. So accumulation of that, like I said, they come in here, a lot of them, high acuity, and so you have to be able to work with those clients. You know, most of us are type A, you know. I mean, you know, you know, they're uh they like you know, they just give it to me straight, no, no, you know, sugar coating. And so it's it's a unique population, and we're blessed to have amazing, amazing people on our team.

SPEAKER_06 30:57

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Bonnie Rumilly 32:01

So we've talked about overarching how you can support all the first responders in the same program, but I'm wondering what do you do to tailor? Because there are nuances, there are differences between the branches. I'm wondering what you notice with that, and then what are your options in terms of tailoring to some of those nuances?

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Well, we don't really have uh we don't really kind of uh divide the you know the different branches into different cohorts. We've been really, really fortunate. We've never, quite frankly, Bonnie, had a had a problem with it. You know, we have you know, first, you know, we have firefighters in groups with you know, group sessions with with police officers and uh you know paramedics and fire and stuff like that. We've never really had uh an issue with it because they're all struggling pretty much from the same stuff. Yeah, culturally, um, you know, yeah, I can see that. You know, fire is uh is you know, fire department is different from from police, but we all work together, you know. I mean, the police work hand in hand with fire and EMS. And so, yeah, different different cultures, but we're all suffering from the same stuff and we all work hand in hand.

Voiceover 33:11

So earlier you shared your story, um, how you went through the program, and that's a massive success story. It's but there any other or is there another story you can share of someone's success that benefited from going through FHE and Shatterproof?

SPEAKER_04 33:25

Oh, absolutely. You know, there's so many, uh, Dave. Um, we get without naming any names, obviously, but you know, I mean, we get emails all the time. Uh, we get uh, you know, letters from people, cards who, you know, thank us, you know, for saving their life. And it it touches us. I mean, but what they need to realize is we just we were walking with you and we we helped you and we provided you with the guidance uh and the support. You're you're the one that did the work, you know, and you're the one that that made the changes. But there's so many uh success stories out there. And you know, one thing I'd I'd like to add too, Dave, is you know, sometimes we get people coming back, and there's no shame in that. Just for the listeners out there, you know. Um, I've talked to people who are you know who are you know come back and they're in intake, you know, they're and they're ashamed. They're like, I let myself down, and I'm like, look, I'm glad you're back. You know, I'd rather have you here than out there doing something. So there's once you get past because we don't treat them any different. You know, why why why would we why would we? I mean, maybe some organizations do. We do not. I am glad they're back. It's not a one-shot deal for someone. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_07 34:43

Sometimes it takes uh two trips through inpatient to really get all the material. They're just think. I mean, they're immersed with you know in in all of these techniques, and and who knows, even in 30 days, maybe they didn't get through all of their trauma because it may be they may have military trauma, childhood trauma, and so maybe it does take a second trip to finish, you know, to really get them stable.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

So and I tell people, Stacy, I said I tell them, look, it took a long time to screw you up, it's gonna take some time to peel back down you're true.

SPEAKER_07 35:18

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

You know, to address some of these issues, you know.

SPEAKER_07 35:23

So, Pat, um, once a patient is discharged from uh any inpatient facility, what steps should clinicians take to ensure that um there's continuity of care and support so that there is a smooth transition back to outpatient services?

SPEAKER_04 35:44

Well, that's a great question. I mean, I can speak from my uh point of view with that. We're we're we have case we have case management, you know, each of the clients is uh assigned a case manager. Obviously, they have you know a caseload. Uh uh, but what before they even discharge, Stacey, the clients are meeting with with case management, they're working on aftercare, IOP, whatever that looks like. Maybe they came, maybe they came in working with a primary. So we're gonna you know be in touch with their primary therapist, whoever's part of their support team back home. We're gonna set all that up. So when they discharge and they go back to wherever, they're gonna hit the ground running. You know, we're gonna we're gonna work on all that stuff before they even discharge. So it's so important, like you said, to the continuity of care, and not just for any, you know, just not it's for any any therapists are out there, you know, if if they're going back somewhere to make sure that the handoff is smooth, so you don't have a client, you know, in limbo because their aftercare is crucial. We all know that. And they have to they have to hit the ground running, um, you know, with with whatever it looks like in their aftercare. But we're blessed here because we have case managers that are constantly talking to you know the the clients. They they help with fmla and you know whatever issues the clients have. So again, when they discharge, they're gonna go back and they're gonna they're gonna hit the ground running, which is critical.

Bonnie Rumilly 37:11

I think that's great that you provide that because a lot of times when people come out of inpatient back to us, there are a lot of questions about FMLA or they're out on the PTSI bill.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

And yeah, yeah.

Bonnie Rumilly 37:23

Um, you know, it's a lot of different things to know when you're on the outside as well on how to support everyone, and every agency is also different in how they support their responders. You know, some will say, okay, he went away for 30 days and we're just gonna take care of that, and others are going to make it very difficult for their responders. So I admire the fact that you all provide such great case management to get people set up because in my view, the inpatient part is super important medically, as we know, just the detoxing process is very dangerous and starting to do the work, but the aftercare is just as important because that to me shows you know where do they need to go next? What else has to be done? Um, how can we help their family? There are so many aspects of it. And you touched on it before too. When people come out of inpatient, they go back to the same workplace that hasn't changed with the old patterns. They go back to their family who hasn't changed and as you mentioned, is still reeling from the trauma. Um, so they have to fight even harder because they're going back to the old pattern and they're the only thing that's really different.

SPEAKER_04 38:35

Absolutely. And when uh when our clients leave, Bonnie, they're can they're alumni now. So uh yeah, they might be discharged from our care, but we still offer some services. For instance, we have a weekly alumni call that I host every other Friday, where you know, they can, it's only for shadowproof alumni that they get information when they discharge of the link, and it's just a weekly check-in. And I might get 15, 16 clients in there every Friday, and it's just hey, anybody want to you know talk about anything? Anybody struggling? Great, let's come together as a community, you know. So it's it's it's something uh else where we're maintaining those touch points with our clients even after they leave. They're alumni. Every year we have an alumni retreat, you know, where we, you know, in usually in Florida, where we get our alumni from Shatterproof and other programs too, where we can all get together and just kind of celebrate, you know, recovery and wellness. And so it's not that you know we we get them out the door and it's you know, see us see us. Good luck. No, we we care about our we care about our clients. We we want to, you know, we want to see them succeed and and uh we still maintain the that contact even even after they discharge.

Voiceover 39:55

Pat, we've covered quite a bit, and I just wanted to kind of put it out there too You again from the perspective of clinician that wants to know more about these kind of programs, specifically your program. Is there anything you'd like to add or let them know? What should they know that we haven't covered?

SPEAKER_04 40:13

Yeah, you can go to FHEHelp.com, that's our website. You can see all the different programs that we have. You know, you can scroll down if you're interested in the Shadowproof program or some other programs, it's all right there. Um, you my contacts information is pretty it's out there, so you can reach out to me uh if you have any questions about anything. And lastly, I mean, we always encourage you know, clinicians, you know, especially if somebody's gonna be referring somebody down to FHE and just you know, shatterproof, come down, get a tour. You know, we bring people down all the time. You know, it's one thing talking about shatterproof, but it's another thing when you have a decision maker or a clinician coming down and actually talking with our clinicians, talking with our directors, seeing where you know their their client or their patient's gonna be staying. I mean, we have a beautiful campus, Dave. It's it's uh we got to get you down here too. Um, you know, it's it's a beautiful campus. It does not look like a behavioral health facility. You know, and uh it's gorgeous. We're about 10 minutes away from the beach, but yeah, give me a call. You know, my contacts information is uh is online. Check out the site, our different programs, different you know, treatment modalities, a deeper dive online than what we talked about. But yeah, and uh we're here, you know, FHE Health. Uh we've got a lot of different programs, and we'd be happy to help you.

Voiceover 41:33

Fantastic. Bonnie Stacy, any other thoughts?

Bonnie Rumilly 41:37

I'm just so grateful I got to to meet you today, Patrick. Um grateful. You know, I wasn't fortunate enough to be on the last one with you, but I do watch you on social media and I thank you for everything you're doing for our brothers and sisters. Uh, they need it. We know that. Um, but you're doing the work, so thanks.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Well, thank you for what you do, Bonnie and and Stacy. I mean, the behavioral health is I never thought I'd work in behavioral health, but I am I have found my niche. I tell you what, I I tell you know, I tell clients uh sometimes they ask me, what brought you to behavioral health? And I was like, Well, if you look at my resume, it doesn't look like behavioral health, but I'm so glad I'm I'm here. I mean, I I found my passion and it's given back.

Voiceover 42:18

You're getting a you're going for a degree in um in counseling?

SPEAKER_04 42:23

Yeah, so I'm uh I'm almost done with my uh clinical degree, so I'd be a licensed uh clinician down here in the great state of Florida.

Voiceover 42:30

Incredible.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

That's gotta get my hours in, as you you you all know, and all my you know, do all that stuff. So I'll get there.

SPEAKER_07 42:38

So Kat, I wanted to jump in and say, um, if there's anybody that's going to influence uh first responders, it's somebody who has been a first responder, has struggled, and has risen above. And so, you know, you're because of that, you're you're very inspiring to first responders. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

You all are are rocking it and keep up the great work.

Voiceover 43:02

Well, you too. It's always a pleasure, my friend. Um, it's always great to cross paths with you, and uh, I look forward to seeing you down there getting the tour. Um, I know it's gonna be fun. So thanks for spending this time with us today and helping to enlighten clinicians who need to know more about this part of uh of mental health. Uh we appreciate you spending the time with us.

SPEAKER_04 43:22

All right, thank you so much, everybody. Have a great day. I appreciate it.

Bonnie Rumilly 43:25

You too, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

Bye-bye.

Voiceover 43:27

Remember to like and subscribe, YouTube, respond to resilience, Facebook, respond to Wellness Inc. and Responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and go to our website, respondertv.com for past episodes, guest information. Until the next time, stay safe, be kind to yourself, take care of the colour.