Responder Retirement: Navigating Life 2.0 (Part 1) | S4 E52

SPEAKER_02 0:00

In this family, more of us die by our own hands than by the hazards of the job. In this family, up to a quarter of 911 dispatchers have symptoms of PTSD. In this family, our mental health and wellness are in crisis while responders are quietly suffering. In this family, many struggle with job-related stress, burnout, trauma, sleep disruption, substance abuse, and marriage problems. In this family, we can help the helpers with vital information and resources, resilient strategies, and success stories of overcoming the obstacles. In this family, no one is alone. Welcome to Responder Resilience with co-hosts retired Lieutenant David Dashinger, Dr. Stacy Raymond, and Bonnie Rimley, LCSW EMTB.

SPEAKER_12 1:13

Tonight's episode is the first of a two-part series focusing on retirement. Most people view retirement as something to look forward to with joy and anticipation. It is a time when we can finally reap the benefits of our hard work and enjoy hobbies, travel, and leisure. At the same time, when it comes to life stressors, retirement is among the top ten. It is the nature of most law enforcement officers, EMS personnel, dispatchers, and firefighters to often put others' needs first. They sacrifice time with family to serve the community, working long hours, overtime, nights, holidays, and weekends. When it comes to preparing for their own retirement, unfortunately, many first responders put off important decisions or neglect to ask critical questions. First responders certainly deserve a fulfilling and well-funded retirement, but preparation is crucial. This episode will explore some essential criteria to ensure a rewarding career all the way from hire to retire. And is retirement actually the best word to describe this rite of passage? Many responders stay active and find new ways to be of service, or now can finally devote full attention to family, hobbies, travel, or a side business. Perhaps a better term for leaving the job is the next chapter. This is my favorite. It alludes to new dreams and aspirations. Life 2.0, the second season, my time, a time that's all our own when responsibilities are minimized. First responders find satisfaction in helping others and being part of a pack or tribe. Their work can be mentally, physically, and emotionally challenging, but also extremely gratifying, and most feel blessed to have it as their career. Many responders would probably say there is nothing they would rather do as a profession. For most, it is a calling. For some, it is the continuation of a generational family legacy or the fulfillment of a childhood dream.

SPEAKER_19 3:28

You know, I just remember being a kid and going to visit dad, you know, at the firehouse and just like just being in awe of not just the equipment, um, but the men that worked there. There was something about them, and especially that generation, kind of look back, I just remember thinking like, wow, these guys are like giants in so many ways. Just the personalities, the humor, the strength, um just their bravery, like it was palpable.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

It's kind of a funny story. Um, at the time I was a school bus driver in Bridgeport, and uh, friend of mine also worked as a school bus, volunteered in uh Stratford EMS. So he told me there's a driving course for uh analysis. So I'm thinking, you know, okay, I'm 21 years old, drive around like a sirens. Sounds like fun. I didn't even really want to be an EMT to be honest with you. Uh I was trying to get into the uh become a police officer. Actually, I was taking tests for police, but uh this kind of fell in my lap and got interested in it after one of my first or two calls. I'm like, yeah, I can I can do this, you know.

SPEAKER_11 4:36

Uh when I was a young boy, I lived on Highway 20 in uh the city of Racine, and police cars would go by the house with their lights and sirens on all the time. And uh my parents said that every time I would hear a siren, I'd run up to the window and I would call the police car in Urcar. And they said the first time I saw a police officer get out of the police car, I looked at them and said, When I grow up, I want to be an Urcar man. So all my life I wanted to grow up and be an Urkar man, and I eventually in 2001 I became a police officer for my hometown. So for 21 years, I loved being a cop. I loved it. I loved everything about it, about it. I enjoyed it. I woke up every morning, put on the uniform, put on the vest, put on the duty belt.

SPEAKER_17 5:21

I think I wanted to either, you know, be in sports or I wanted to be in a rock and roll band. You know, be a singer in a rock and roll band. And my problem was I had no talent. So um I ended up kind of falling into the fire service when we got into the military. You know, the military puts you where they want you and they put me in the in the fire department. And uh all you can do is just gonna be grateful that that God takes care of you, even when you don't know what you want. It wasn't until I got into Seattle fire, and then really candidly, a few years into Seattle fire, that it just really got a hold of me. And then once it did, um, you know, the rest is history.

SPEAKER_15 6:03

I was living in Milford. I had a beautiful apartment on the beach and everything, living the life, and I was in my mid-20s, and you couldn't ask for anything better at that age. But I said to myself, I gotta find a day job. So I opened a New Haven register and there's a job for Connecticut Humane Society looking for a kennel person. I said, I like animals. So I took that job and I I I actually loved it. And it paid horrible. I mean, it paid horrible money. But a year later, uh, the test got announced for the state animal control officer. So I took that test, that exam, and I started at the bottom rung as an assistant regional animal control officer in the town of New Fairfield. And I worked my way up through the ranks for 34 years and did my last eight years as chief of the US.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

When I got into a paid service, um my mother had cancer. The company I worked for at the time was my first paid job, and we had the contract, if you will, to pick her up for her chemo and stuff. So I was off this particular day of getting her ready to go to get her chemo, and she stood up and her femur stopped. So actually the ambulance was outside ready for you know for her to get her in the ambulance type thing. And um, I ended up riding that call in with her, and she never came out of the hospital. So at that point, I felt if I can deal with this, I can pretty much deal with anything that comes my way in this field. And at that point, I'm like, yeah, this is where I want to be.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

And the rest is history of that as well. Once I left the Marine Corps, I came back home to New York and I took all the tests, you know, police department, fire department, you name it. And luckily, I got the one that I really wanted. I got called by the fire department. I worked like crazy to try and get on that job, and it really paid off because before I know it, I was on the job. It was great. That was me. That was I was Steve the firefighter, and my life was set.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

My mom's boyfriend was a police officer with the Phoenix Police Department. So I would go on ride-alongs with him and never had the inkling as to be a police officer. But as I went on and went on the ride-alongs, it became very interesting. So I did an independent study for my class, one of my poly sci classes, and did a paper for what a police officer does on a day-to-day basis. And that just resonated in the back of my mind. And said, Well, I think I want to do that. But I wanted to be in LA. So I said I looked into the LA police department and I said, I think this would be a good fit for me. And I decided to apply. And within three months, I was in the academy.

SPEAKER_19 8:49

I don't remember my first call. Um, but I do remember the feeling of you know, riding the back step, facing backwards, going to a call, geared up with the lights and sirens, and just thinking, like, man, this is cool. Like, I just kind of got a little chill right now just thinking about it. It was it was so exciting. I remember just being so thankful and so appreciative of that moment, like the realization of wow, I I'm here, like I did this.

SPEAKER_12 9:20

Firefighters, police officers, and EMS personnel routinely put themselves in harm's way and face a higher risk of work-related injuries than the public. A career that was planned to span twenty-five years can be cut short by an accident or one critical incident that changes everything in an instant. First responders can be forced to retire or resign due to age restrictions, a fatal officer-involved shooting, or medical problems or injuries that end their career. Even for those who stay in the job for the long haul, reflexes slow down, their body parts wear out, and sleep deprivation takes a toll. But then there's the often overlooked mental and emotional toll the job can take. Child deaths, suicides, gruesome injuries, the constant threat of being attacked, stabbed, or shot at. These threats and exposures to trauma add up. We were curious to learn when people first started thinking about retirement. Here's what they had to say.

SPEAKER_05 10:21

I did everything in five-year increments as to what I wanted to do on my career. That was one of the paths that one of my training officers told me this would be the best thing for you to do. You can look at it in three, five, or 10-year increments. And I chose a five-year path because the department changes over time. And sometimes you might get an assignment in five years and you really like that assignment that you have. And it might change your life forever. For instance, a lot of people get into become a motor officer or they'll work narcotics in specialized units, and they'll stay there for the rest of their career. But my actual time when I actually said I'm gonna do this was probably when I had 18 or 20 years on on the job. Is when I said, I'm going to go into drop when I turn 50 years old, do five years to make sure I have my medical, and then say live, say goodbye to the department.

SPEAKER_16 11:22

Well, my goal to retire really was to do 30 years in law enforcement. I had just come up on 27 years with San Antonio, and um it wasn't that I was losing the passion for the job. I just felt like there were other opportunities out there for me. I was doing uh uh some traveling and consulting and teaching on the side, which was really starting to pull me more and more towards um just that that part of my life where uh I really thought I could reach a lot more people and spread the message um by going out there and spending time with uh departments if I wasn't working full time. So that was starting to play a part of my decision-making process. And as those opportunities continued to open up, I decided uh I want to go ahead and transition and start traveling and talking to groups of people.

SPEAKER_19 12:13

I was training uh a probationary firefighter one day, and I was pulling hose off the rig um in demonstration, and I felt something kind of funny in my neck over the course of a few weeks. The pain and the uh secondary and kind of tertiary effects of that um kind of blossomed, which led me to go to the hospital on my own, apart from work not realizing it was a work-related injury thing. So they did the whole workup, um MRIs, CAT scans, and after about 12 hours in the hospital being admitted, um, I spoke with one of the chief uh neurosurgeons who finally had answers because no one really seemed to know what was going on. He was quickly to say, I've seen this before in first responders, specifically firemen, just the trauma and stress that we carry in our bodies and our shoulders and our necks specifically. Um he was very confident that it was that it was related to my work. Um and probably within 24 hours I filed uh uh a workers' comp claim with my department into the state.

SPEAKER_10 13:13

I wanted to retire because I wanted to focus more on some different projects, namely my show and other things that I wanted to work on. So I think a lot of people who retire are kind of on the fence, and I don't think the traffic lights of life are never gonna be green at the same time. So I just did it. And I was glad I did it. And you know, everything worked out the way it was. But it was time for me to retire, and I and I don't regret anything.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

It happened quickly. I didn't plan it. Um, you know, as far as I was concerned, I was gonna work in EMS till I was 100, but it just didn't work for me anymore. I had been through so much, not only in the almost 20 years of doing EMS and um working in surgery and oncology, but personally, I just mentally was not up for the challenge anymore. Uh, it took a toll. And I was lucky that I was one of those people who was able to recognize that it was time for me to step away and recognize that I needed help.

SPEAKER_14 14:17

So for me, it did happen unexpectedly, even though it was a two to three year medical process where at least my therapist was being honest, like Matt, you gotta start coming more to accept that you're not gonna find a surgery to heal you so you can continue. So for me, I was in therapy. And also the things that I started long before, like the meditation and the journaling, something called spiritual direction, where I always had priests or pastors who also were mental health professionals. What's the lesson to be learned in this adversity? What are the lessons I learned as a police officer? And now, how am I going to apply these lessons and the hard-earned wisdom that we get if we lean into the pain, the confusion, and the adversity on the job?

SPEAKER_04 15:07

That all got cut short one day when I was working on the Cross-Pronx Expressway. There was a car on fire with people in it. And my job was to get one of the little girls that was in the backseat out. While I was going to get her out, a car on the highway went out of control, uh slammed into me and sent me. They said I was flew like 200 feet in the air and landed face first in the shoulder of the Cross Bronx Expressway. So I broke both of my legs, my neck, both of my arms, my pelvis. Anyway, it was a long, long recovery. I was in the hospital for a long time. They didn't think I'd make it, then they didn't think I'd uh they'd be able to save my legs. But after that, I really got depressed because, like I said, I was a firefighter. That was what I wanted to do. I love being a firefighter. And now I couldn't do that anymore. So, you know, who was I? I wasn't Steve the firefighter no more.

SPEAKER_19 16:06

My retirement process was very difficult. Um I I I personally tried to do everything as honestly as possible and as as much integrity as possible. Um, and even though that was my approach, um, the organization, the town, let's just say, uh did not believe me and uh was not willing to accept my reason for retirement. You know, we all have contracts, we all have agreements. They didn't uphold their end of the agreement, uh, unfortunately. And that created a lot of stress and a lot of problems for me and my family that I did not expect or see coming. I gave my my life, my time, my sweat, my blood, and and my body, right? I have I have injuries that I will carry the rest of my life, mentally, emotionally, and physically. Um, and when that institutional or organization does not support you the way that you thought they would have or think they should, that's that's a very difficult thing to accept.

SPEAKER_11 17:06

Aaron Powell Well, on April 8th, 2016, I was on duty as a patrol officer in Wisconsin when I was dispatched to our uh Walmart for somebody who was unwanted, and the chaperones with that person wanted assistance from the police with escorting them out of the store.

SPEAKER_21 17:24

You could respond to Walmart. I have a worker from the Northern Center 91021. She states that they had her there with a client who's refusing to leave with them. They state that she can get violent.

SPEAKER_11 17:36

Uh eventually, this person was able to remove a hatchet from the packaging and started walking around the store and threatening customers.

SPEAKER_21 17:44

It is in possession of a knife and is threatening people with it.

SPEAKER_11 17:49

And I responded, arrived, made contact with this person, uh, gave them uh multiple verbal commands to stop and to drop the hatchet. Uh they refused to do that while they were walking towards me, and I ended up shooting them.

SPEAKER_18 18:08

How did you make the decision uh or it was made for you to step away from law enforcement?

SPEAKER_11 18:14

It was made for me during a meeting with my chief. He asked me, um, I could well he explained to me I could either resign or my employment would be terminated. And I thought about it and I refused to resign because what I was experiencing was because of a critical incident and I wasn't going to resign. And then they terminated me. And then you know, May of 2022, when that ends, my identity, everything that I've ever known, just stops.

SPEAKER_15 18:48

I was working for the Connecticut Department of Agriculture, the animal control unit for 34 years. Um as far as planning my retirement, I really had no plan for retirement. Uh because I I actually enjoyed my job. I enjoyed it immensely. I mean, I I loved my department, but um it just got too one, it's just one day, and he just says, Yep, I've had enough. And that's when I decided to uh to retire after 34 years.

SPEAKER_13 19:21

The reason I left the police department was uh I was the only patrol one home one night, and um I went down an alley, I saw a clothing store, window was broke, window was up, I called it in, and I took my shotgun out and I climbed through the window. A gust of wind came through and it blew a rack of clothes, and I just turned and fired. I shot clothes full of buckshot. I said to the chief, I said, you know what, maybe I need to take a break from this because the Marine Corps taught me to pull the trigger before you'll take a breath or blink an eye. So that that's why I left the police department.

SPEAKER_23 20:05

It's never too early to start thinking about it because you know you're not gonna you're not gonna work forever, right? I've hit a certain milestone age and it's really time to actually start, you know, not just dreaming about this, but you know, plotting and planning for it. So that way when the time does come, you're actually like prepared for it and it's not like a complete culture shock.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

It actually happened um completely unexpectedly. I was a lieutenant, uh still part of the police union. We had contract negotiations, it was an arbitration settlement, and a uh a golden handshake for lack of a better term, um came forward, and I had about two weeks to make a very, very difficult decision. I I had not thought about it um prior to that, had no financial plans uh or no job lined up, and sat down with my wife and said, uh, here's the offer, here's the opportunity, uh, the door has opened, and um I'm gonna do it. I felt that it it was right for me. Uh conditions at the department were were right for me. And um I had to make a very difficult decision in a short amount of time. I didn't realize at the moment that it would be such the right decision. Um, and that's why I tell you know, people that when you can retire, to do to do it. But that's that's my story. It wasn't planned at all.

SPEAKER_20 21:28

I wasn't necessarily planning on retiring, but I went through a health issue. I just wanted to keep doing the work. I was an assistant chief responsible for a lot of things. I was projected to promote again. Um, I had just done the you know exam, did well. All of this horizon was looking bright to keep going, but I wasn't feeling well. And the sifting process for me was really being still long enough versus the phone ringing 24-7, the emails coming in. And so, in those still moments, it was really for me saying, I have served well on the department for 29 years, but my body is telling me that it's time for me to do something different and to end something that's been a part of my life since I was 21 years old. And it was a very hard experience, but I was hospitalized um several times during the end, and I had a lot of quiet time. And in one of those moments, I allowed myself really to kind of surrender to it. And once I did, and I and I actually spoke it out loud to um you know my husband and my children, and I was worried about their reaction, but they just cried because they were like, it's about time.

SPEAKER_17 22:55

Whatever it is that's causing you to walk out the door, whether it's injury or illness or you're tired, you know, if you're like me, I was spent, it was time. Um, if you're you know so frustrated that you feel like you can't be healthy on the job, that type of stuff. Whatever it is, um, I would encourage you to start with a real feeling of gratitude for what it was that you've been able to do and the ride you've been able to go on. Not everybody gets to finish the way they want to finish. You know, not everybody finishes with a party or finishes with you know something in the department named after them. Or, you know, a lot of people just do great work and they fade off into the sunset and it's fine, man. It's good. It was about the work, right? It was about the time you spent on those crews and to be grateful for it. And don't view um this idea that the fire department moves on as a personal insult because it's not, it's the normal order of things. And your time on the job was valuable and it meant something, and it should mean something to you. And you should never let any of the external circumstances that are either you know have gone on in the department or are going on or however you're exiting, never let it take away from the fact that for that period of time, you got to get on a fire truck, you got to go to some of the most incredible things in the world, you got to work with teams that were just epic, man. You know, the goods and the bads, but just epic teams. And you got to, over over a career, you got to go into people's very worst day and make an impact on their lives. And there's there's hundreds, if not thousands, of lives that have been impacted by what you do. And I think it's a put an important starting place.

SPEAKER_24 24:32

We don't get with them soon enough and we don't talk about preparing for retirement, and that should be talked about in the academy because everybody says, Oh, I've got time, I've got time until it's here, and you're going, Oh my gosh, 20 plus years, 30 plus years has passed, and I am ready to retire, and I did nothing to plan for this. And and we really set them up for failure if we don't do this ahead of time.

SPEAKER_12 24:57

Given the inherent and unique risks linked to the profession of being a first responder, there is no guarantee you will have a linear path from hire to retire. A career that was planned to span 25 years can be cut short by an accident or one critical incident that changes everything in an instant. Likely causes include a career-ending physical injury, officer-involved shooting, or cumulative post-traumatic stress that result in burnout. We asked first responders their opinion on how best to reach the finish line. Here's the advice they offered to both rookies and more seasoned first responders about a long and healthy career.

SPEAKER_19 25:37

Being able to be present, being able to enjoy the little things and enjoy the moments that you're in, because if you're not focused on the present, you miss it and you lose out. And then, you know, suddenly you you kind of wake up and you look around, you're like, especially if you have to retire, you know, you might have regrets about um not really appreciating the blessing uh that it is to be in that line of work. I really honestly truly believe that it's a privilege, not in a privileged sense, but like it's an honor to serve people in that capacity, right? It's an honor to sacrifice a part of you for something like that. It's an honor to give your time, your energy, your blood, sweat, and tears to help other people, especially if you're able to obtain a position of leadership. It is an honor to lead other people.

SPEAKER_10 26:29

I would say start thinking about it now. It doesn't have to be on top of mind, but have it in the back of your mind about okay, we're all living longer, at least most of us. Okay, what are you gonna do after this chapter in your life? If you survive this chapter, and I don't mean it in a doom and gloom way, but if you get hurt or something like that, have a backup plan. But if you do come out the other end, you know, take care of yourself first and foremost, physically and mentally, and have a plan for when you retire. Okay, what am I gonna do after I'm a cop? I did have a plan. You know, I was teaching and other stuff like that. So I was thinking long before I retired about leaving, uh, but that was always in the back of my mind. So have it in the back of your mind. Focus on the present right now, which is important. But then, okay, what am I gonna do after my career? It should always be somewhere in your mind of okay, what am I gonna do after I retire? And not just after I retire, but God forbid I get hurt or something, and I have to retire. You know, have a backup plan, A, B, C, maybe even a D.

SPEAKER_16 27:27

If you're new, if you're a new officer, please understand the importance of self-care. Uh, learn how to pace yourself, learn about good coping skills, start your day off in gratitude, have an open mindset to always want to learn new things, right? Don't just take what somebody told you and then have a fixed mindset, and that's the way you're gonna approach your career. You've always got to be willing uh to learn and evolve and grow when you're an officer. And it to the day I retired, I was still learning something new every day. And then also just make sure that you're a really good communicator with your family. Don't exclude them from what's going on in your life at work. Make them a part of it, bring them into it so they understand what you're going through on a day-to-day basis, and they're there to support you because they're because they love you.

SPEAKER_24 28:12

Statistically speaking, you have a better chance of being injured and maybe not returning to duty than you know, really, you know, being killed in the line of duty or even dying by suicide. So I think more officers need to be aware of the the injuries and those things that can actually happen that can leave you not in horrible shape, but could actually end your career. And we don't think about that. You know, I I officer that got shot in the trigger finger, you know, things like that, you know, you're thankful they're here, but then you're looking long term, you're like, well, they they don't have a career anymore. They're not working. So I think planning on, you know, being realistic about the true risk to our lives and you know, in our livelihood, having a backup plan, making sure that you're prepared. And and when I say prepared, I mean after this incident happens, everything else that you've been dealing with is still there. So if your your relationships aren't healthy, if you're not eating right, you're not sleeping right, you're not taking care of yourself, that's really beginning, you know, again, magnified. So making sure that officers are preparing now. As we get older, our bodies are breaking down, things are happening to us that we didn't, you know, anticipate, didn't expect that could put us at risk. So really staying as healthy and well as you can right now. Should something happen, have a backup plan. I say have plan A, B, C, and D. You never know what's gonna happen. Um, it and it really could. It could be something that's cut short that you did not anticipate, you're not prepared for, um, you could lose your job, whatever the case may be. You need to have something in place to jump. You still have bills to pay, you still have a family to support, and we need you here. So we really have to set officers up with that kind of mindset that winning doesn't always mean that you're gonna retire.

SPEAKER_11 29:45

Start early, you know, financially, start early with saving for your retirement. Be healthy. You know, if you're struggling with mental health, get help right away. Use your employee assistance program or whatever other resources are available to you uh through your agency. That's that's important, that'll help you continue throughout your career and be healthy and have a successful career.

SPEAKER_17 30:06

You can't sacrifice the other parts of your life to the exclusion of your professional pursuits. And if you do, you live with the consequences of your decision, and likely it's going to be uh, if not a broken home and a broken relationship, it's gonna be one that's significantly less than what it could be. And and remember that was your first commitment. You know, my my first commitment was to my spouse on my knees before God that we would build a life together and that I would have her back and that I would walk with her and that we would be a couple, you know, and and as as part of that, we agreed that professionally I would move into the calling of the fire service. And man, we embraced it whole hog. And you know, we I I put a lot of time into the fire service, but I never allowed it to become the dominant thing. And I'm telling you, on that day, I was really glad that was the case. It was nice to come home to to my wife and to you know a place where I'm not an afterthought, you know, and where people where she doesn't move on from me. I don't get kicked out of the email system, if it if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_08 31:09

Because I'm the uh the FTO coordinator, I see and and read every piece of documentation of every recruit that comes through our department, whether they be brand new or a lateral transfer. Um, with that, it gives me the opportunity to connect with them. And in doing so, I always recommend to them, again, and I start it as early as them being a recruit is don't lose sight of your true identity, of who you are. You know, I I tell people that my name is Jeff. I work as a police sergeant, but I'm Jeff Ward, and that comes first. It's really easy to become so attached to your new family within the department. But what's equally important is that we keep those old friends, we keep the family close to us. Moving forward, we you want to make sure that they have the ability to still do the things they love outside of work. That this isn't the only thing that should be consuming their life. Um, and I really kind of get into listen, there's going to be recreational activities, there's going to be activities and hobbies and things that you've always loved doing that either slowed down significantly or have even stopped. And I tell people that don't lose sight of that because that is going to carry you on throughout the course of your career in a much healthier way.

SPEAKER_24 32:44

And what happens is this about two weeks out, I usually check back in with my retired officers and say, How's it going? And they usually say, Well, I haven't been fishing every day. In fact, I've got a second job part-time, either for insurance or just to get out of the house because I'm bugging everybody. That's the reality. So magical thinking, you you nailed that one. That is exactly what we do. We set ourselves up for this idea that I'm gonna, I'm gonna retire, it's gonna be happy, I'm gonna do what I want now. The reality is being type A and being very black and white in our thinking, we really need to have a plan in place so that when we make that jump, we jump into something else right away because you can always tailor it back. Jumping into nothing and hoping for the best is not a plan, right? That's a roll of the dice. We need to talk to them in the academy throughout their career. And then I look at a five-year window when they're age eligible or they're eligible by whatever other means, five years out, a year out, six months out to make sure they're still on track for that process. But we don't do enough here. In fact, if we're already pushing them out the door before they're even retired, we're definitely not doing anything after the fact. And I think that's part of the issue.

SPEAKER_06 33:55

You know, you do 20, 25, 30 years in this career as a first responder. There's gonna come a point that you you die. And so when are you gonna live? You know, statistically, we don't do well after retirement. And so the importance of taking care of yourself, the importance of being proactive with your physical and mental health and your financial health can't be overstated.

SPEAKER_15 34:20

Um, just have a plan so that you just don't come home and say, no one, or as a friend once told me, you know, I used to be somebody. So you gotta have something lined up to keep your mind active.

SPEAKER_07 34:34

Don't let this be your life and don't let people think it's who you are, because there will be a day when you're not working in law enforcement, whether it's planned retirement or an unexpected departure from the job, like like I had to do. I mean, when I started, I I thought I was gonna do the full 30. And here I am. Nope, didn't do that. So life can happen to you. Uh it just can't get so wrapped up in it that you feel like it's all you know and and it's all you have to offer. You it's not.

SPEAKER_08 34:59

I usually tell people, make sure you have a five-year plan. Uh, five years out from retirement or when you think you might want to retire, that's the time to really start hammering it down and come up with a plan. And most recently, I myself have gotten into that five-year range now. And so with that, I realized that not only do you have to have a plan, but you have to implement that plan.

SPEAKER_19 35:25

If I was a new recruit, if I could look back and give my 21-year-old self some advice, would be think about what it looks like to have an injury. We're taught to do risk versus reward assessments on everything, right? Benefit versus risk analysis. Um, all uh that's that's ingrained into you uh from day one, uh, especially as a firefighter. And when you train for a fire or you train for motivational accent or whatever, you are you're mentally preparing yourself for things that you might encounter. Hearing a doctor tell you you might not be able to go back to work, like that came out of nowhere. I did not expect that at all. And that was a very real, very scary uh thing to experience. So I think the mental preparation there is very helpful and could be very helpful to deliver first responders.

SPEAKER_22 36:16

I heard somebody else say it and I use it, and it's it's a way to encourage others that you know that your your career is eventually going to come to a close. And I heard someone say that you have to figure out what you're retiring to. Um so identifying like what those passions are. Don't let the job be a constant or like the number one priority. Um, have other passions, have other hobbies, you know, don't don't allow your family to be the the second, you know, line. Um put them first and foremost in the passions that you have. So that way when you do decide to walk out those doors, that you do it with that being a choice of your own, and that you have something that you're retiring to, something that you're passionate about, so that you can stay engaged, that you have another group or another tribe uh that you're engaged with and that you're close with, and that you're not just you know going home to uh a house full of strangers.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

Every obstacle that you come across is a chance for you to learn. Things are gonna happen that you can learn from and that are gonna make you stronger. And that's what you want. You don't life is not, you know, a bowl of cherries. It's not gonna happen like that. You're gonna run into problems here and there, and by learning how to deal with those problems, you get stronger, you get smarter, you get wisdom. I would tell them to talk to the old guys because they've been through it. They know what's going on and they can help you more than you know.

SPEAKER_15 37:57

Find an outlet when you uh get home, when your day is done. You know, find an outlet to that's something absolutely totally different than what what you're doing during the day. Uh I know it's difficult to do, but um, but you kind of need that to keep your sanity and and not only that that outlet may lead to something when you retire as something that hey, you know what? This may actually be a second career. So um that's what you need to do.

SPEAKER_20 38:26

When people are thinking about retiring, I would say get some kind of consultation or counseling to help you prepare because it is not scary. It is not scary to retire. What can be a challenge is when you retire, is you lose connection with all those people that you used to be connected to because of the work. That's like a big drop off a cliff. You know, everybody's like, oh, I'm gonna reach out to you, I'm gonna talk to you, we're gonna, yeah, I can count maybe a handful of people that really reach out to me. So you have to decide, is that okay, or do you want to reach out to them or get connected in some retirees groups so that you can stay connected? But our identity can't be just in the work that we've done. Just because you're kind of finishing one career doesn't mean you can't have another career or a half a career.

SPEAKER_12 39:26

Next, we address the important topic of financial planning, when to start the process, and important matters to consider as your career unfolds or in some cases unexpectedly ends.

SPEAKER_09 39:38

The perception that people have is that if I'm working for a municipality, I'm gonna have a lot of things at the end of the rainbow. I'm gonna be pretty much taken care of. But as you get closer to the finish line, you realize that it's not necessarily true.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Well, if I know what I've known now, I would have stayed in the post office. Um, because like I said, there's A pension with that and everything else. EMS. I started here with a pension. Um, they've since transitioned to a 401k. So pension's frozen. I will get a little something, but the only plan I had was to retire. I had no plan on like thinking of another job type thing. Granted, I have my CDL class A, I have things I can fall on if I had to. But even at my age, I mean I'm 52, but my body is probably 75, you know, all these years. So do I really want to jump in on the trucks? Probably not. I'm just hoping the 401k builds back up where I can enjoy retirement because I don't want to work like most people do. You know, you work and then you're dead two years later after retirement. So I want to try to enjoy some life.

SPEAKER_06 40:41

A lot of us in the first responder community, we're like squirrels. We gather. We gather we gather our nuts and we're always saving for a rainy day. And what ends up happening is you die and you never receive the benefit of you working so hard for so long.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

I remember the first one of the first or second times I went into the firehouse uh once I got out of the academy, and one of the old older guys came up to me and he put my he put his arm around me and he said, Kid, let me tell you something. You want to get into this 457 plan. He said, and do it now before you even get your first paycheck. Because by doing that, you start putting this money in there, and it's like you never lost it from the first paycheck. My money was going into this 457 plan, and it just keeps building up and rolling over.

SPEAKER_22 41:36

Personally, like I waited um before I started what's called the deferred compensation plan. Um, and so I have like a nice nest egg from when I initially started mine, but if I would have started it from the get-go, um, it would have been it would have been a nicer size.

SPEAKER_09 41:53

So how your estate, how your children are able to get the most out of your finances in the event something was to happen to you is usually done through your dictates in a will. Many people forego doing that. So I would recommend you know, making sure legal documentation is looked at, secured, making sure that you understand your pension options also in advance, right? Understanding the value of having an optimal pension requires sometimes getting a good insurance policy. You know, people uh don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.

SPEAKER_05 42:26

Well, first of all, they have to look at their family life. If you're married and you have young kids in your family, you got to look at your pension system as to when it's going to max out. You have to look at the age of your children when they're going to college. There's a whole array of things that you need to look at to make sure that you can continue to support your family. Set a goal as to what you're gonna do with those kids, and you need to be able to support them while they're in college.

SPEAKER_06 42:57

On day one, you need to be intimately involved with your finances. And so that means starting your 457, making contributions, increasing contributions, uh every time you get a pay raise, every time you get a bump. Uh, I like to use the percentage method uh that that calculates, you know, the more money you make, the more goes into your deferred comp. And I believe for 2023, the deferred comp limit is I think 22,500.

SPEAKER_23 43:28

Start planning for it day one. Um, you know, you hear this tossed around so often, you know, it's never too early to start planning for your your retirement. That's 100% absolutely true. If you were to have to retire tomorrow and be on some sort of fixed income, would you be able to maintain your present lifestyle? And chances are the answer is no, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:55

The other big change is is that you're on a fixed income. So I have my pension that I was lucky to be able to collect right away, but I also had to rely on uh an income and benefits uh to keep me at the level where I was. That was a that was a big change, was not being able to just say, okay, let's take a trip to Disney. I'll work a few road jobs and a few overtimes and and we'll have it paid. Uh that doesn't work in the real world. Um and a lot of police officers that come to work for me now uh as an owner of a security company have a big adjustment because it's $25 an hour that I could offer them, then not the $65 or $70 an hour that they're used to making now on overtime or a road job. So that's that's a a big adjustment um financially.

SPEAKER_06 44:43

The other thing I like to talk about is the importance of not having extreme debt when you go into retirement. Pay your house off. And people go, oh my god, pay, how do I pay my house off? Listen, I paid my house off. It's a matter of not keeping up with the Joneses, right? It it's it's a way we need to look at money differently. Uh stop leasing, stop leasing cars to show everybody how well you're doing. Um take those monies the thousand dollar a month car payment on the seven series BMW that nobody cares you're driving, right? Find a nice car, treat yourself, buy it, and stop renting every three years. I literally wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars over my 30 years leasing vehicles to show people how well I was doing.

SPEAKER_16 45:39

Um, also financially, make sure that you're not get into that habit early on of wow, I'm getting a good paycheck now and going out and and buying all these new toys. Make sure that you're you're budgeting and you're putting money aside because you never know what can happen in your career. You could make it to a 20-year career and retire or 30, but you could get injured or something else could happen, and you may have to leave earlier than that. So you want to make sure that financially that you're stable.

SPEAKER_06 46:04

I had the smallest house in the city of Weston, Weston, Florida, beautiful city, always in all the magazines, places to live, blah, blah, blah. Small house, no yard, zero lot line, no pool, no, not little three, two, beautiful neighborhood. And I stayed there for 25 years, paid the house off. I'm going into retirement without a mortgage. I have I have those monies now to decide on what I want to do with it. It provides me some financial freedom.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

And then you can also prepare for your uh your financials and understand okay, am I gonna have a mortgage paid off? Am I reducing the size of my house because the kids are out? Um, and plan for all of that. I would say about five years. I had no plans, I wasn't thinking of that at all. And uh, you know, again, we had a union contract come through, an arbitration agreement in our favor, a golden handshake offered, and um that's what happened with me. So it was very sudden. I had about two weeks to decide and make it happen.

SPEAKER_09 47:08

When you're young and you're healthy, you have so many options. You you have the flexibility of your good health. I guess the better word would be the leveraging of your good health, because when you have your good health and you're young and you get a good, for example, a good insurance policy. That life insurance policy will allow you to optimize your pension, typically, as long as it's a sufficient amount of of a debt benefit, you'll be able to optimize your pension in the long run.

SPEAKER_06 47:32

So you get some life insurance, and depending upon your age, the premiums are very reasonable. But think about this if you would we're all gonna die. It's a really uncomfortable conversation to have that nobody wants to really believe. We are all gonna die at some point, and so what's the plan for you to take care of those that rely on you and your income when you're gone? And if the plan is a GoFundMe account or passing the hat at roll call, you have failed to plan. And so think about it. On top of the tragedy of your family losing you, now they got to figure out how they're gonna pay the bills. They're struggling with the loss of you, and now you've added to their burden. Shame on you. So you gotta get some life insurance, right? And like everything I say is talk to three or four, five different reps and start playing them off each other and use the information from one against another so you can become informed.

SPEAKER_09 48:37

The action you take today, I think was the was was the tagline. Your future self will thank you, right? So if you're doing things when you're younger and you're planning well in advance, not only do you know what the future is going to hold better, but you're also taking advantage of your youth, you're taking advantage of the fact that you can do more things and be and be better prepared. As you get older, you may not have so many options. You may have to take that pension, you know, that's with a survivorship option, which it can be very costly.

SPEAKER_06 49:09

The other part of life insurance that I like to talk about provides you with some financial freedom. Um, I use my own example because it's the one that I know best, right? I got a whole life policy payable upon my death. And in doing so, that has allowed me to take option one with the FRS, which is all the monies I have entitled to me with no benefit being paid to uh my wife. That's it. When I die, the pension dies. But I get the most amount of money coming to me, and I mitigate that risk with a hefty whole life policy for Mrs. Kelly. She's got two and a half million on me right now. So listen if something happens to me, just for a suspect.

SPEAKER_14 49:59

I will say financially, just for people that may want to save money on their monthly check. I forget what the disability type insurance is, like AFLAC type stuff. It never crossed my mind, so I didn't sign up for that. Um and that could be a lifesaver. Also, my department didn't put into Social Security, so I didn't care about putting into Social Security on my own. So now I don't have enough credit or points to get social security, disability, or social security when I reach that age. So financially, when you look at your paycheck, oh my gosh, so much is taken out for taxes. I can't invest and I can't get the disability insurance. Well, I would reconsider that looking into disability insurance, um, looking into a financial advisor and start investing much earlier on than, hey, I didn't do this, but I'm gonna buy the truck and the rent's so high. So I'm not even gonna put 50 or 100 bucks into some financial account that's conservative because you can't make up for all those lost years. I didn't do any of those things financially, and I didn't get paid that well in the departments I was in. So financially, I did not set myself up for retirement and it ended way sooner than I planned. So that's been a challenge.

SPEAKER_04 51:20

Like all of us, we never think it's gonna happen to us. It's not gonna be me that gets hurt. You know, the guy next to you gets hurt, the other guy gets hurt. You never think it's gonna be you, but it happens. It's a tough job. You know, more people get hurt on the fire department than just about any other job that you can do as a civil servant.

SPEAKER_19 51:39

We did have a uh injury packet that was available that was basically handed to you, and you'd work with your supervisor to fill that out. What I learned very quickly is that the kind of standard operating procedure is that they deny the claim immediately. Uh, and then the onus falls on you as the individual in my case to prove that injury was work-related and then fight for that that that claim. And um it's it's it's very stressful, very difficult process because I think you kind of have this idea that oh, if I get hurt or something happens, like the organization, the town, the entity, whoever they're gonna take care of me, um it shouldn't be that difficult. But in reality, it it is a very difficult process.

SPEAKER_20 52:24

Even after you've retired and you've looked at your income for retirement, you still need to be considering the income that you're going to be making in your second season and how that will look. So um I just want to encourage those who are getting close to retirement or um who are retired, decide what your second season is going to be. And if you have time, plan it out, get the you know, certifications, the training that you can get from your employer, be all in while you're working, learn, network, um, start to look across the landscape and start planning what that will look like for you.

SPEAKER_06 53:04

And as we're moving through our careers, if if if we're getting to that, you know, I'm 10 years out, five years out, you want to start looking at your risk tolerances. Uh, depending on if you're in a defined plan or an investment plan, your risk tolerance is greater when you have more time, right? Time is the great equalizer here. The more time you have, the more time you have to recover from for say, like a correction or a dip in the market. So being aware, being plugged into what your money's doing and where it is located, uh, is very important because understanding that you know, if if we face a really sharp market correction, you may need five years to get that account back to where it was, where you were planning on being able to retire. So having that knowledge, being fiscally responsible to yourself in that regard is is crucial.

SPEAKER_24 54:02

We did a small research study, in fact, with the Blue Wall Institute addressing relationships, and three main issues came out. And it was uh communication issues with the relationship, lack of intimacy, and financial issues. And you know, when we see those issues now in a home of someone that's actively working, those issues are gonna be magnified in a home when someone's actively retired. Because not only are you gonna see issues still with financials, which are gonna change dramatically once someone retires, and it may be something that even though they expect it's not a hundred percent understood, which will lead again to communication issues and lack of intimacy because things aren't happening in the home that one believes should happen.

SPEAKER_09 54:44

There's a ton of information that's out there. So even those who take a proactive approach, you can just go on Google, you can you can just see what would be best or what's out there, what products are out there, um, you know, what my pension looks like. But so many times I have clients who say to me, you know, I have all this information, I just don't know what it means for me. As a first responder, we have to take it upon ourselves. We have to make sure that we are being as optimal as possible, that our families are going to be taken care of, that we're gonna be taken care of. Be proactive, take stock of yourself, get some education, and seek some advice.

SPEAKER_12 55:23

Tonight's episode featured the personal experience and advice of several first responders with regard to planning for retirement. Join us next week for part two of our retirement series when we explore the highs and lows of that first year post-retirement. We will hear from first responders who transitioned seamlessly into chapter two or the second season of their work life. Others, unfortunately, tell us how they struggled with loss of their identity and the challenge of reliving aspects of their worst calls. Responder Resilience would like to thank all of the first responders and experts who shared their life and career experiences in these episodes. What are your ideas, plans, and dreams about retirement? Share them with us in the comments section.

SPEAKER_15 56:12

When you retire, you're just another employee that's gone in ten years to be only at uh good old what's his name. I wish I knew that.

SPEAKER_20 56:22

Sometimes I think for a lot of us, it's scary to retire when you've been raised by an organization for almost three decades.

SPEAKER_08 56:31

There's a running joke that says that as you retire, you're forgotten about before you even leave the parking lot.

SPEAKER_11 56:37

When I work, I'm working as a uh mental health crisis worker.

SPEAKER_07 56:41

I lost who I was. I didn't have any plans for the future.

SPEAKER_10 56:46

I stopped on my national plan design for FAG Health and I worked in the shadowproof program.

SPEAKER_19 56:52

It's as if you lost a level. For me, there's a sadness there.

SPEAKER_23 56:57

They really do become your second family. You know, I remember going around that day saying goodbye to everybody, you know, you're quite working towards my degree and so forth.

SPEAKER_22 57:08

So now I'm back working full-time in another law enforcement agency.

SPEAKER_04 57:13

I was a firefighter. That was always what I wanted to do. Sometimes it's like go through a curveball, and you find yourself without an identity.

SPEAKER_14 57:24

I would ask police cars, and it was like somebody punched me in the stomach, like I got sick. Because I I missed it so bad.

SPEAKER_17 57:33

When you say I'm a retired firefighter, people step up. They notice. They're like, wow, man, that's incredible. And it provides an avenue for you to be impactful as a servant in your neighborhood and in your community, or even whatever you're doing for a you know, second job.