Responder Retirement: Navigating Life 2.0 (Part 2) | S5 E1

SPEAKER_20 0:00

In this family, more of us die by our own hands than by the hazards of the job. In this family, up to a quarter of 911 dispatchers have symptoms of PTSD. In this family, our mental health and wellness are in crisis while responders are quietly suffering. In this family, many struggle with job-related stress, burnout, trauma, sleep disruption, substance abuse, and marriage problems. In this family, we can help the helpers. With vital information and resources, resilient strategies, and success stories of overcoming the obstacles. In this family, no one is alone. Welcome to Responder Resilience with co-hosts retired Lieutenant David Dashinger, Dr. Stacy Raymond, and Bonnie Rimley, LCSW EMTB.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

But how does a person dedicated to public safety embrace retirement? Many first responders have character traits of the rescuer or the warrior that are inextricably part of their identity. They are focused on the health and safety of others. It's in their blood. So it's no surprise that stepping away from that role can be a challenge for first responders. We see a lot of retired first responders and veterans who struggle, particularly in the first year after retirement, with feelings of grief, loss, trauma, and anxiety. The loss of belonging to a tribe and having a purpose for the greater good is the greatest loss of all. We also see a phenomenon of trauma flooding. When now that the tempo and pace of first responder life slows down, the memories and trauma come pouring in. They no longer have the distraction of the structure of a set schedule with set routines. Those neural pathways begin to relax and the unfinished business of the trauma their career exposed them to can begin to surface as intrusive images and sounds.

SPEAKER_15 2:41

During his years of service, Lieutenant Dashinger has been an advocate for health and wellness among his fellow firefighters, and has demonstrated an exemplary work ethic and been wealth of knowledge with training. We thank you for your service, wish you a very happy retirement, and Godspeed.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Some expected and some unexpected. We will now hear from several first responders as they describe the end of their careers.

SPEAKER_09 3:43

Well, my last shift at work, uh, I knew it was going to be, and usually the uh the way it normally goes, if it's your last day, is you come in and just go to roll call. And then uh you're you're pretty much done after that. Uh everybody you know pats you on the back and tells you all these great things about you. The torch is being passed. Um, I've done what I can do. I've I've taken this unit as far as I can take it up to this point. It's up to you to continue to grow it.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

How did you make the decision, or it was made for you to step away from law enforcement? Can you just speak about that?

SPEAKER_08 4:17

It was made for me during a meeting with my chief. He asked me, um, I could, well, he explained to me I could either resign or my employment would be terminated. And I thought about it and I refused to resign because what I was experiencing was because of a critical incident, and I wasn't going to resign. And then they terminated me.

SPEAKER_14 4:41

My experience leaving my agency that I worked for for almost 15 years. Um, of course, I did it during COVID. The the way that people would leave or they still leave is that there's um somewhat of a party that's thrown, or there's a gathering of some sort, and you're ushered out um with well wishes. And my experience was quite the opposite. Like I walked in, um, I was told that I just needed to get my my uniforms and stuff together and turn everything into quartermaster. So I, you know, cleaned up my locker, cleaned up my desk, and transported everything over to our quartermaster area and turned, you know, my gun, my badge, in um my ID, and was handed my retired ID. And essentially I walked out the door, and you know, I had a couple people who was like, Hey, I'll see you later. And I was like, um, today's my last day, like I'm I'm gone.

SPEAKER_07 5:37

You know, when we do our firefighter marriage class, we have a a picture that we put up, and usually, you know, it's in the context we're talking about the importance of taking care of home because every one of you has a day coming where your active fire service career is going to come to an end. And I know for many of you it's hard to see. It was hard for me to see. To be honest, I never really thought about it up until about the last year I was on the job, and then really the last six months is when it started to crystallize, but I never gave much thought to an end date or an end time. Um, but whether you think about it or not, it's coming. And I took a picture the last 15 seconds of my my fire service career, at least I'm pretty sure that's the case. You never know. Um I have a picture of my bunking gear on the hook that it hung on for 10 years as Captain of Ladder 5. And I took the picture and I walked out the door and it's over. Got in my car, drove away, looked at the looked at the firehouse in the rear view mirror, and gang, my my 33 plus year fire service career had come to a conclusion. Um, as you would imagine, incredibly emotional. That's probably one of the most emotional moments professionally that I've ever had, even even during the day, watching that clock tick and knowing it's four hours left, it's two hours left, it's 15 minutes left, and then you know, the emotional ride home. Um, I think what I would emphasize there is you want to do it the right way. I think um, you know, when you see that coat on the hook, you know, good times and bad times, I think you want to feel like you gave it your all. I mean, I as I looked at that coat, um, I was sad. Um, but I also felt in my heart and soul that man, I had I hadn't I didn't leave anything on the on the field. I really did give it my all. And again, just a sense of uh gratitude that it's supposed to hurt, it's supposed to feel tough. I mean, if I was leaving something that didn't matter, then it'd be fine. You'd be like, ah, whatever, I'll go do the next thing. I was leaving something that was monumental in my life and monumental in my family's life, and um and a significant part of my professional career was spent there and my identity, you know, was there, and um, I would have felt odd if it wasn't feeling like you know, a punch of sorts.

SPEAKER_04 8:03

There's a a running joke that says that as you retire, you're forgotten about before you even leave the parking lot. Um, and I think there is some truth to that because when I talk to people who have been around, like we would call somebody who's been living in town, a townie for a really long time, you know, they they'll tell me that, geez, you know, I I see all these new cops in these cars, I don't have any idea who these people are. And the sad thing is that, you know, it probably won't be very long, maybe a year before you come back to the PD, and people aren't gonna know who you are, and they're not gonna remember your name or or or maybe you were just a name to them uh prior to you know when they got here.

SPEAKER_15 8:42

You know, you think about it, and it's like I've just spent 15 years of my life um at this place, you know, with these people, and you know, they really do become your second family. And all of a sudden, you know, I remember going around that day, saying goodbye to everybody, you know, teared here, and then getting into my car, pulling out of the parking lot, and sitting across the street and looking at the firehouse for the last time, and it's just like, all right, you know, this is this is it, it's over, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

First responders often associate a huge part of their identity in their job. Sometimes it's at the expense of family, friends, and health. Public safety careers involve novelty, risk taking, adrenaline surges, and teamwork. First responders are committed to helping others, saving lives and reinstating control in a chaotic and sometimes dangerous situation. Stepping away from such an existence into retirement is akin to stepping into a void for some first responders. There is a profound sense of loss, loss of a schedule, a routine, loss of one's family of brothers and sisters in the department, loss of working as a team, the camaraderie, the gallows humor after a difficult call. But perhaps the greatest loss is that of one's identity, feeling useful, feeling needed for one's ability to help.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

One of the biggest things when a responder retires and all they had to hold on to was that identity of their title, uh, their title goes away. And with that, um the officers or other first responders have a real difficult time, more so being able to adjust um because of the strong ID that they've created for themselves over the course of their career.

SPEAKER_05 10:40

Because I I did a lot of television uh news interviews and stuff on a weekly basis. I was in the public eye, and people knew me as that person that um that was uh the head of the state animal control unit for the state. And I was known as the animal guy, or is one uh uh municipal ACO called me the uh the grandfather of uh of animal control in Connecticut. So um so my identity was was I lost my identity in a day. It was gone. That was very difficult. That and and losing uh the camaraderie of of working with uh not only people in my department, but um working close with uh municipal police departments and state police and uh um people in the chief state's attorney's office, and you know, all that was gone, gone in a day.

SPEAKER_21 11:36

The big big thing for me was just loss of identity, you know, who I was. I mean I I when I retired in 2019 in March, I was like, okay, everything's gonna be great, and it was for a little while, and then I really struggled with okay, I'm not a cop anymore, I'm out of the loop, nobody's telling me anything. I don't have that camaraderie anymore of the officers. So I struggled with that, you know, and I was looking for outlets to kind of fill that void, you know, you know, hanging out with my friends and stuff like that. But I I it wasn't the same. I mean, even though it was enjoyable, but I wasn't a cop anymore. So I went through that identity crisis for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

That was tough to lose what I had let become my identity, and I thought it was who I was, not what I did. Now I understand policing is a passion and a calling, but there is a time when anyone in the profession will not be doing it anymore. And if you let it become who you are, then it and then it will be very damaging. And I lost who I was, I didn't have any plans for the future. I didn't know how to handle myself just emotionally. I sunk. Getting into the profession, you must understand it is a job as much as you think it is who you are, it is not.

SPEAKER_19 12:50

It's as if you've lost a loved one. Uh there's this a hole there, and sometimes you hear things or see things that trigger thoughts or emotions that were tied to the job, and that instantly triggers memories. For me, there's a sadness there again, as if there's there's been a loss. The routine, the schedule, um the uh the camaraderie, the brother and sisterhood struggling as a whole with other people who are going through the same struggle. That connection is very deep, you know. Just the stress of the job, you know, the the things you see and do, the training, the lack of sleep, um it it becomes it becomes a part of you. It really does.

SPEAKER_08 13:36

So I'm thinking, what am I gonna do now? My experience, my training, um, even in the military, I was military police. So what am I gonna do now? All I know is law enforcement. And it is a huge part of me. It's my identity, it's what people when they hear of Adam, they knew that I was a police officer. My children knew I was a police officer. It's an adjustment, and it's only been five months, but it's still something that I'm I'm challenged by.

SPEAKER_12 14:05

I had that whole deal with identity. I was a firefighter. That was always what I wanted to do. And like you said, I had planned my um life out to to go on, get higher in the department, become a lieutenant, maybe a captain one day, and um and then look to retire after that. But sometimes life throws you a curveball and you find yourself without an identity and not knowing what your next um step is gonna be.

SPEAKER_17 14:40

Oh, being a police officer will always be a a part of me. I went from the military to security to corrections to law enforcement, uh, now back to security. So it that's in my DNA. It it's it's who we are. There was a major adjustment in realizing that I'm a regular person. I have to be careful when I'm flying down the highway and uh those type of things.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

But I still struggled. Like I when I moved to California after my retirement and was going through all this medical recovery, I would pass police cars and it was like somebody punched me in the stomach. Like I got sick because I missed it so bad. And honestly, as balanced and healthy as I think I was prior to and throughout my retirement, when my friends called from my shift or the SWAT team or that I worked at at the police academy, a lot of them I never listened to the voicemails. I didn't call them back for weeks because it was just so painful that I wasn't with them on the job anymore.

SPEAKER_05 15:40

I'll tell you what, when you retire, you're just um you're just another employee that's gone. In 10 years, you'll be, oh yeah, that's uh good old what's his name. The world doesn't stop because you do, you know, things keep moving. I wish I knew that when I started.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

With any big change or loss in life comes a sense of grief. It is important to recognize and honor these feelings as they arise. Sadness is a normal reaction to the absence of what was, even if you're excited about the prospect of retirement. It is possible to be both happy and sad about the same life event. We hope the following comments from our first responders help clarify and validate these reactions.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

There's many other ways you can make a difference in this world to one person or many people all at once. It's not who you are, it is what you do. And if you find yourself grieving, then find a group of people who can either lift you up or you find a group of people who are are former to the profession and they can share with you how they've coped with it as well. But also do things that are healthy for you, like exercise, read books, uh listen to great uplifting podcasts like responder resilience, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_07 17:00

If you work hard during your career to keep your first family first, so that you have a strong marriage and a strong family or at least some relationship, some community to go to, some of the loss that you'll experience by not being in the firehouse every day, which is a big deal, man. You know, not going to fires and not coming home and all that cool stuff, that kind of impact gets kind of minimized more because you'll miss it, but you have other things that are good and that are great.

SPEAKER_15 17:28

This hit me really unexpectedly. There is a grieving process. Um, again, you spent like so much of your time in your life. And, you know, there'd be some days I'd wake up and it's just like, oh, you know, it's you know, it's 5 30. Uh I gotta be on the road and you know, oh wait, no, I don't. When you work in emergency service, you know, everything is purpose-driven. And it's like, okay, now I have time, you know, a little more freedom to, you know, kind of be myself and sit back and take a breath.

SPEAKER_17 17:58

The quickest realizations that I had was, you know, being a police officer, you have authority. Um, I didn't have authority anymore. I was a regular person now, and I had to keep that in mind. I had to be conscious of that. And it took about six or eight months. Uh it felt like I was on a vacation, but it took about six or eight months to realize that I am retired. I was not planning for retirement, I didn't have a job lined up. Um, you know, financially there were some difficulties, uh, but I found a job. I went into security work, as as police officers sometimes do, and we made it happen. And then I would say at the one-year mark or so, that's when my brain started settling down a little bit, and um those good and bad memories started popping into my head, I think, when you're not answering the calls every single day and you're doing the job and you're getting it done, that your brain decompresses, and uh things pop into your head, and you have to you have to work that through. I do miss the job, I do miss the community, I don't miss the the BS. I realize that a lot of the stress uh was coming from the building itself, uh, more so than the community, which was very interesting. Um, but certainly there's a loss of identity, and you have to keep yourself busy either with a job or volunteer work and mainly family, time with my family. That was huge. It made it all worth it.

SPEAKER_11 19:24

And sometimes I think for a lot of us, it's scary to retire when you've been raised by an organization for almost three decades.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

We wondered if the retirees we interviewed continued to maintain a connection to their department. Did they go back and visit their coworkers, meet up with other retirees? And if so, what their experience was like, whether positive or negative.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

So when you retire, or you get an injury on the job, or you're under admin leave investigation. You're away from the stations, even if you're super tight on your SWAT team or your patrol squad or your firehouse, out of sight, out of mind. So that beautiful community that you had that had a higher purpose and meaning and deeper bonds from doing life and death things together, just like the military, just like the book Tribe by Sebastian Younger, you are now an outsider and not as many people are calling and checking in that they used to be.

SPEAKER_14 20:29

So that sense of tribe, that sense of belonging, um, the brotherhood or the sisterhood, as we often will say within first responder culture, it's not there anymore. It's kind of that the adage of out of sight, out of mind, that when you leave, you can be very excited about that opportunity, that you're you're moving on to the next chapter, like you've put all this time and effort into your career, and this is what you were ultimately looking forward to. Um, but at the end of it, there's not that same connection. You're you're disconnected and and you feel isolated.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

I have found through my experience that the majority of the department and a lot of the officers you knew, you're not going to be in touch with them. I don't hear from the department. I'm not saying that when people say we're a family here, that's not true, but it is a place of work, and you're not going to hear from a lot of people. However, there are friendships that are made from various coworkers that I have found that have gone on since I left the profession. Like some of them I have not been in touch with for a while, but like the other week I sent one of them a message out of nowhere, and it sparked a great conversation because that friendship's still there, that bond is still there, that camaraderie is still there.

SPEAKER_14 21:50

But a lot of those individuals that I've talked to, even that have done service for you know 20 plus years, they're all saying that they wish that they would have known um a long time sooner that they had the opportunity to talk to someone that they didn't have to hold that all in. And you know, they can give pieces of information to the new generation so that they're not making the same mistakes that maybe some of us did.

SPEAKER_07 22:18

There's real avenue for mentoring. I mean, a lot, a lot of firefighters and young officers in that could really use some tenured senior people who aren't grouchy and aren't bitching about how bad everything is or how crummy the new chief is or all this other stuff, which might be true, but nobody needs to hear that. I'll tell you what, they don't want to hear. They don't want to hear how this generation, whether it's the millennials or the whatever, the Gen Zs or the whatever, the how they're gonna ruin everything. You know, the the Vietnam vets in our time said the same thing to us. I remember as a young recruit. I remember there's a lot of Vietnam vets and you know, military folks and tradesmen in in our department. Oh, you know, you come kids coming in, you know, you haven't ever swung a hammer, you didn't go to Vietnam, you're gonna ruin the department. You know, and we did it, you know, we made some changes, and some I think are really good, and some maybe not as much, and the next folks coming in are gonna build on we what we did and they're gonna have to make it their own. But they don't need to hear how bad they're gonna make the department. What they need is they need you to invest in them and believe in them and see things in them that they don't see, and there's such an avenue for that.

SPEAKER_14 23:29

Those individuals who have retired, you know, they've they've experienced a lot as well, and they might have the presence of mind to pick up on some of those nonverbal cues that I myself might not be picking up on, or you know, somebody sitting next to me might not be picking up on. So I think that that opens a huge door of opportunity for people to be able to be very open about what they're experiencing, what their thoughts are, um, and have individuals who've struggled just like they have, and give them some some sound advice.

SPEAKER_11 24:04

If you're already retired, get into a network. I mean, I can't tell you how much having a network of really great professionals and people has really helped me to get um connected to the lot of the work that I do now. And I love that. I love the referred process, and occasionally I'll get some of that that's outside of it, but it's all really referrals, it's all being in this partnership and relationship together because um we're of service to one another, you know, even in the second season.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Grief is a part of any life transition, and that includes retirement. Amidst the relief, excitement, and even joy of ending one's career is the inevitable sadness. Sadness goes hand in hand with loss, loss of routine, structure, being busy, loss of contact with friends, loss of the opportunity to be useful or helpful, and thereby feel appreciated. Unfortunately, for first responders especially, that first year of retirement can be difficult, both physically and emotionally. There are two concerning statistics, the rate of illness and the rate of suicide within the first year post-retirement. Why is this? We know that stress and depression can manifest as physical pain or disease. Likewise, without a sense of purpose or direction, a person can feel useless and unimportant. They may question their reason for being and wrongly assume they have nothing to offer anymore. Some people would argue that the suicide rate is elevated during the first year of first responder retirement. Others believe it is higher during active duty.

SPEAKER_14 25:48

When you're talking about isolation, that's one of the components of the a decision, essentially, to take your life. Um, hopelessness and helplessness and isolation are essentially a recipe for feeling that there's there's no way out, there's there's nothing else.

SPEAKER_12 26:12

I got angry, I got depressed, um, I started, I was on painkillers for all the pain that I was on, and I started taking more of them. I finally got to the point where the painkillers were making me worse. Something clicked in me, and I knew that I had to change my path. I had to go another direction because that part of my life was behind me. I've always been the type of person that that liked helping other people. Of course, being a Marine and going into the fire department, it's a helping job. You want to help other people. So I got into healthcare and uh I went into nursing.

SPEAKER_05 26:57

I've had some nasty cases that you know are just embedded in my brain that will be there for forever. Um you know, am I losing sleep over it? I don't know, but you know, some nights yes, but it's stuff that's never gonna go away. And you know, and then when you see stuff on TV, animal cruelty cases, there's just a big one up in the northwest corner with the hoarding the situation. Brings a lot a lot of it back. And and the thing that uh uh really uh gets me is I know what to do to help to alleviate that situation, but I no longer have the power to help alleviate that situation. So that's kind of hard to take a step back after you've been the person in the front all the time.

SPEAKER_17 27:45

I'll give you an example. I was out, you know, weeding around my pool last summer and clear head, just weeding around the pool, and bam, just like that, a dead person popped into my head that I had pulled out of a pond. I just paused for a moment and I I just said out loud, why are you coming into my brain? Uh is that them coming to me? Is that somebody trying to warn me of something? Or is that just simply I've had the time to decompress and my brain is trying to work it out because I'm not I'm not re-injuring myself every single day by picking up the radio and being at work. So those things have happened a lot, and I've had to um I've had to talk to people about it, I've had to talk to co-workers, former co-workers about it. So that will happen, and you need to be prepared for that and to be able to work through that. I know that I'm not alone. It happens to all of us, and we all need to join together and talk about it and support and help each other. It's very, very important.

SPEAKER_08 28:47

When I was on my 90-day leva absence, I was put on a safety plan. Um, my psychological evaluation had indicators of self-harm, of suicidal ideations, and uh support is very important. I remember when I was in the waiting room, the person that was going to be a witness to this to help support me through this, I remember they looked at me and basically told me, today isn't a good day for me to do this. And I was thinking, this is about me. I need your support. Um so about a month after I was put on a safety plan, one of my supervisors came out to my house and gave me a written order to immediately cease and desist speaking about my personal mental health regarding my shooting. Um, they said that I was violating policy, they were they said I was violating social media, and they said that if I didn't immediately cease and desist, that I could uh face discipline or even termination. And then a month later I was I was terminated.

SPEAKER_14 29:50

As we age, right, we we're not able to do the same things that we used to do. We don't heal as quickly. We also acquire illnesses. So in those cases, it increases the likelihood of an individual feeling disconnected and that they don't have anything to live for or anybody to to care about them. In instances where they do still have family around, they feel that they're doing those family members um you know a service, that they're not gonna make them burdened with themselves anymore.

SPEAKER_21 30:26

Okay, now you have time on your hand. You know, now you're you know, you're you're free, you're not tied to a job anymore, you're retired, or maybe you do other things on the the side. But I think a big thing is loss of identity. I think that definitely is a contributor. Uh, I think, you know, okay, taking like your habits, maybe some bad habits that you had when you were on the job, and now you again have more time. So maybe you're drinking more. Uh maybe you're suffering from PTS. Now you're no longer on the job, which a lot of people get depressed about. So it's just compounding, you know, all those issues. You know, the need to feel like you're wanted, you know, like somebody, you know, you're going to a call and somebody needs you. I think that's definitely a contributor, you know, to our men and women, you know, hurting themselves and the suicide rates, you know, going through the roof, uh, along with the other stressors of family issues, financial issues, and things like that. But I think a big part of it is, you know, that that first responder need to help other people, that I'm no longer needed. Yes, I have my family, they need me, but the public doesn't need me anymore. I'm not responding, I'm not going to those calls. And it's a sense of belonging that is now gone, you know, from especially that profession where I think can lead to depression. And unfortunately, suicide rates, you know, being where they're at with first responders. So it's sad.

SPEAKER_13 31:48

A lot of people want to say that there are higher rates of retirees, meaning in the suicide category, if you will, once they retire, but the data doesn't actually show that it's actually higher among active officers. So I will say that initially. What we try to use now is what we call an inoculation process. So we know that through the data, if pending or nearing retirement is an issue and it's noted in the data of completed suicides, and something is going on in this little microcosm over here inside of the officer, there's a change in a mindset, there's changes in relationship status, there's changes in financial status, all kinds of stuff's going on. Then we need to be plugging in before this officer becomes eligible for retirement. Um, I think what happens is they lose their purpose. Um, they've invested so much in this career and and they've they've sacrificed a lot. And now they don't have a new purpose and they don't take the skills that they have and invest it in something new. And we need to help them do that. We need to help them get healthy. What happens is this they're running 100, 120 miles an hour, and then there's this abrupt stop. There's this wall. And what normally I see at retirement are a lot of issues like things like DUIs. I see domestic violence issues. You know, in our suicide stats, there are things that maybe they have kept in control throughout their career, and now all of a sudden there's nothing holding them accountable anymore, and that the guard kind of goes down and certain things are happening that may not have happened when they were actively working.

SPEAKER_17 33:12

Yes, you're in that mode. You're in that investigative or that rescue mode. Um, I'm not in that mode anymore. So I have time uh to think about that. Not that I necessarily want to, but my brain is making me go through that. And um, I'm glad that I have people around me that I can call and say, I I I gotta just talk for a minute and just get something off my chest, and it helps.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

And is there anything in your career that you never dealt with? Have you had some death scenes or somebody you couldn't rescue if you're a fireman, if you had to use violence or force as a police officer, or just whatever the traumatic things that we see on the job? Have you worked through a lot of those things? And then you retire, and then a lot of this unconscious stuff starts bubbling up when you're not super busy all the time. Because being super busy and productive is another form of self-medication, numbing and distracting yourself.

SPEAKER_19 34:13

So you kind of have to learn how to live again in a different way. Um, and it's a struggle, um, especially if you're dealing with depression or anxiety or or post-traumatic stress. It's it's a struggle. It took me to some very dark places that I wasn't prepared for. And thankfully, you know, I had an amazing spouse, I have my faith, um, and I have a great community that helped shore me up. And I I don't know how I would have done without that. I honestly don't know.

SPEAKER_05 34:40

I think there needs to be a lack of a better word, a support group for retirees that come out of as first responders so that you're just not walking into the abyss of not knowing what you're gonna do. You know, with a support group, at least you got uh co-workers, ex-coworkers to that you could lean on and uh you know, talk things out and say, hey, because I mean I've known officers, uh police officers especially that you know, when they get done with their job, you know, the next thing you know, they're out in the backyard and uh you know they end up putting a gun to their head. And you know, unfortunately, you know, it's because they lost that identity of who they were. And it's it's a sad thing. And God, I'd hate to see somebody end up like that.

SPEAKER_19 35:28

Um, I do miss the job every day, like every day. Everything reminds me of it, you know, and I miss so much of it. It's kind of a continuous journey of being thankful and grateful for that time and kind of recognizing that, hey, that was the the past. This is now I'm in the present and then looking forward to the future.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

What am I gonna do after a cop where I can use my gifts, my talents, and the lessons learned in these careers to meet a need in the world that I'm passionate about. And so I can still have purpose, if that makes sense. So I was doing it through therapy, through spiritual direction, which I know a lot of cops and firemen are gonna be like, that's not for me, but you can still do it with journaling and taking time for reflection, silence, solitude, immersion in nature, fasting. And there's a ton of benefits to fasting from food, but I think in our current culture, the best thing to do is fast from technology. Are you taking some a chunk of time every day or a half or a full day a week to say, I'm not gonna be on social media, I'm not gonna check my email, I'm not gonna watch cable news, and I'm gonna go for a hike in the woods with my dog or take my son or daughter fishing or out on a boat, or I'm gonna go for a drive on a country road, and I'm not gonna listen to audiobook, a podcast, or music, and I'm just gonna see what comes up and do some reflection.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Retirement is not just about the retiree. Your family at home can be impacted by your life transition.

SPEAKER_19 37:10

You have more time with your family. I mean, uh, that's just the way it works, um, which is amazing and it's a blessing. Um, but it is a difficult transition because you kind of learn how to live kind of these two separate lives. Uh your spouse as well, not just the individual who's in the in that career path, but also the spouse. So then now that when you're home all the time, it's like oh, there's all this space to fill up, or there's not as many distractions. And for me, that was very difficult.

SPEAKER_07 37:44

I never sacrificed my family in my pursuit of excellence in the fire service. And it was a really nice thing to leave behind the fire service, which was over for me essentially, at least that part of it, the operational side. And I went home to a wife that wrapped me in her arms and told me how proud of me she was, and we're looking forward at that day moving forward to whatever the next chapters are for us. Uh, I didn't go home to an empty house, I didn't go home to a damaged or destroyed relationship. And so, you know, it was a monumental day, but but but so many positives along the way. In retirement, you got some cool stuff facing you, you know, just a little more time to do some of the family things. You know, when you get where I am for grandkids and things of that type of nature, there's a little bit more time for those types of things if you want that.

SPEAKER_17 38:34

I owe my family a big apology. Um, you know, when I was a police officer with the the stresses of the job and the um the stress from the building, that I'll I'll just leave it at that, whether it's from superiors or the town or you know, whatever it is, the schedules. Uh, I was on the night shift for a very long time, you know, on call uh with uh SRT. I realized after retirement that it's a bigger impact to my family, my wife and kids, than I had ever imagined. Um I heard my my wife talking to my mom, and my wife said, uh, we got Dave back.

SPEAKER_16 39:10

My now husband, we've been together 15 and a half years. Peter has always been not only supportive of what I did, but supportive of what I do and anything that I need to do to make sure that my mental health comes first. Um he's a tremendous person who is very giving in and of himself and didn't know the first thing about dealing with someone who had, you know, worked as a first responder, but was cared enough about me that he wanted to learn. And and so he's come to conferences that I've um set up and he reads articles and he talks to the people that have gone through. The similar similar things that I've gone through. And he just does his best to try and understand. And sometimes he may he does and sometimes he doesn't. But he really works hard at it.

SPEAKER_13 40:12

When I train, I systematically do certain things in my training. And one of them is I ask about your future plans, bucket list items, those kind of things. And most of them will say, I plan on going fishing every day. I plan on doing this, this, and this. These are my hobbies. I plan on spending more time with my loved ones. And the reality is if your relationship wasn't healthy to begin with, and now you're spending all this extra time with someone and you're not doing anything that is really quality time, if you will, it's just really the quantity of being there, it's not going to fix anything. In fact, again, it's going to magnify the issues and it's going to make it worse, which is what happens. Um, I love my husband dearly, but I here's my motto with him a two-day weekend's great, a three-day weekend's push it, and a four-day weekend is a dateline story waiting to happen because when we're together that long, I want to be by myself and do certain things, and it disrupts the harmony that I've already got planned for a short weekend. So the same thing can be said is if you're not expecting someone to be there nonstop in every day of the week and every hour of the day, it's gonna conflict with the things that you already had planned and your own life. So you start to have these issues. It's not like, oh, you're here now, we get to spend all this quality time together because they're not making an effort in most cases to find out what quality time means and spend that quality time. It's just more you're pushed together in this environment now, you just think magically it's gonna work.

SPEAKER_05 41:29

The impact of my uh of the retirement on my family, um it's just my wife and I. So uh she wasn't used to having me around all the time, and that that I think that drove her nuts for a while. But um, then again, you know, right after I retired, I mean, that's when COVID hit. So, you know, we were basically stuck in the house together. So, you know, it puts a strain on your relationship because if you're with somebody 24-7, that's it's uh it's a hard thing. You you gotta find some outlet to to keep yourself busy and and just not sit around and wait for time to pass.

SPEAKER_04 42:03

You get you gotta have a purpose. As far as uh personally and the route that I've chosen to take uh following my retirement, uh my my family and friends are extremely supportive of what I've chosen to do from here.

SPEAKER_15 42:19

You know, now I do have that time to be able to give to you know my family and my friends. One of the first things that um that I was able to do upon retirement was spend a lot of time with my goddaughter, who's five years old, because her mom's work schedule and everything. I took her to pre-K every day. So that like became that became our little routine. And you know, if I were still working, I would have missed out on like those critical moments as a parent, godparent, you know, adult in a child's life. You're never gonna get back.

SPEAKER_22 42:51

Doing the police and fire games has been an absolute reward for me and my family for the most part. It allows me to travel, see the world, um, do the things I like to do. I've been putting on sports since I was 17 years old.

SPEAKER_19 43:09

I I remember the realization I kind of went to was like, what did my wife do all the time? Like, what did she do? You know, and then I'm seeing what she did, and I'm like, wow, you really did way more than I thought you did, you know, taking care of things. But it's a very interesting dynamic to shift those gears. I mean, my relationship with my wife and daughter has grown so much, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

If you don't have a support system, meaning and purpose outside of work, like it's I see alcohol increase, I see uh suicidal ideation increase, frustration, and that ends up having usually some kind of unhealthy family interaction. So pain that's not transformed is transmitted. If you don't heal what hurts you, you're gonna bleed on people that did not cut you. There's this whatever stress and identity shift when you retire that now interferes with your relationship with your spouse and kids, unless you had a plan, other communities, other activities. And if need be, and I would suggest I wish every department would pay for, hey, your last two years on the job, let's have you in therapy.

SPEAKER_07 44:17

For many of you, your spouse has walked with you and made some sacrifices so that you could have the career that you've had in the fire service. And for some of you, anyway, this could be the time where you sit down with your spouse and you say, Okay, you put up with me not being there at Christmas, you put up with me working overtime and having to leave in the middle of the night, you know, 10, 12 times to go to runs or, you know, to be gone extra days, those types of things. Um, what's your dreams? You know, you helped me live my dream, my professional dream in the fire service. What do you dream of? And now I've got the time. Now I've got the time that I can help you with your dream, and we can invest in what's important to you. And again, you know, that reciprocal thing of strengthening that relationship that you're going to carry forward, hopefully, for many, many, many, many, many years past when your sell by date on a fire truck has has gone by.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

In general, we learned that those first responders who found other activities prior to retirement or shortly thereafter were able to thrive. They use different terminology such as a new purpose, the next chapter, or embracing their second season as a way to define themselves and their future. Most of these former first responders, not surprisingly, went on to jobs or activities where they helped others. Being of service, giving of themselves, sharing their expertise, proved to be a critical aspect of their lives post-retirement. We asked our retirees what they're doing with their time and energy now. This is what they had to say.

SPEAKER_11 45:54

Retirement is what it's called, you know, in our agencies and our organizations, but we're just retiring one part of our life in that career, and really having this opportunity to decide in this new season, the second season, you could even have a third season, and some people do.

SPEAKER_05 46:15

I was very fortunate that um I was taking I had two old dogs, two senior dogs at the time, and I took one of them to the vet, and um, they knew I retired. And I worked with my veterinarian. I'd I've known him for over 30 years, so um he's helped me out on some animal cruelty cases and stuff. The staff says, you know, we got people looking for uh, you know, to to watch their senior dogs and you know things like that. And I says, Yeah, that'd be something for me to get out of the house. Sure, I'll do that. So uh they refer uh people to me to take care of their dogs for them if they go away. And it's it's actually worked out really well for me. That gives me a reason to get up in the morning, I go out and get some exercise walking. I got this one dog I've been walking for four years now, three days a week, and it's like having my own dog without paying the vet bill for it. But um you know, it's it's funny how things will just find you and and fall into your lap.

SPEAKER_16 47:15

When I finally retired, um no, I did not want to continue working in the EMS profession in any way because I I knew that that was where a lot of my um triggers were coming from. And and uh I needed to be whole for myself. And and I think good if I had stayed within that realm, I I wouldn't have given myself the time to heal that that ultimately I needed. So working uh as a peer support facilitator, I also work with organizations in facilitating and event planning for conferences, so basically surrounding uh first responders, um, mental health and well-being. And that in and of itself is very gratifying.

SPEAKER_22 48:10

I retired four years ago, um, September of 2018. And now, ever since then, I've been working as the executive director with the California Police Athletic Federation. And what we do is rerun the police and fire games, which is Olympic type sports for police firefighters, first responders mainly. We have two games. We have the World Games, which is every two years, and it's police fire corrections and all the people that are eligible from all over the world. And then we have the U.S. game every summer in San Diego.

SPEAKER_04 48:44

I've had retirees reach out to me and say, hey, listen, you know, I really enjoy what you're doing. I I like the peer support and everything that you're doing. And they've actually offered to still be a peer on our team as a retired officer. But to have actually retirees come back and say, you know what, I I want to either begin to peer or continue to peer, that's been that's been great as well.

SPEAKER_15 49:08

And this is so true that you know everybody that I've talked to that has, you know, retired recently, same experience. I have never been so busy in my whole life. And part of that is everything else in your life that you've been putting off for like the past, you know, 25 plus years. Now you get to take care of it.

SPEAKER_21 49:31

I'm a national liaison for FHE Health, and I work in the shatterproof program uh only for first responders. Um, and like I said, I do that uh with my time now on in conjunction with my podcast, CJ Evolution. But I'm very dedicated to helping first responders out there who are suffering. So I spent obviously a lot of time trying to get people the help they need and deserve. So I'm very proud of that, very passionate about it.

SPEAKER_07 50:00

There's this this idea that you know, once you stop going on fire trucks, that you can't impact people, and it's just not true. As a matter of fact, because you have been where you've been, you have a gravitas associated to you that when you say I'm a retired firefighter, people step up, they they notice, and they're like, Wow, man, that's incredible. And it provides an avenue for you to be impactful as a servant in your neighborhood and in your community, or even whatever you're doing for a you know, second job. Um, so much it is it can be afforded you because of the paths that you walked. If you just will determine not to be a bitter, grouchy, you know, grouch. Nobody wants to be around that. Nobody wants to hear your laments, they want to hear the lessons that you've learned through the years.

SPEAKER_04 50:48

And getting into the field where I would be able to continue to help first responders uh following my retirement here uh was really, really important to me, to the point where I decided that moving forward, you know, I'm I'm gonna start working towards my degree in social work, obtain my master's degree um with the intent to uh get my licensure as a social worker.

SPEAKER_15 51:14

I am a health and fitness coach, uh CrossFit. So I've got 10 classes a week that I'm teaching. I am trying to launch, you know, my nutrition coaching business. Again, catching up on everything that I have put off for the past two and a half decades. We've been doing a lot of traveling, um, you know, to go see family, again, stuff that just I wouldn't have been able to do quite as frequently.

SPEAKER_14 51:43

I went back and got my degree as a social worker. One of the intents of having gone back was so that I could work with first responders in military. Just recently I started my own private practice. I do one-on-one with clients, um, but I also offer consulting opportunities for agencies or even uh other organizations.

SPEAKER_18 52:06

Fellow paramedic I worked with over the decades offered me a teaching job, and that's something I never wanted to do. I'm not a public speaker, I get nervous in front of people. I gotta kind of uh come to reality, I gotta maybe get off the street and go into a classroom. And I'm hoping everything is, you know, set, my ducks are in a row, and I can just enjoy retirement and you know spend time with my grandchildren and live whatever life they have left.

SPEAKER_05 52:31

I stay in touch with uh some of my uh co-workers. Uh we try to get together once in a while for um for lunch or something, so and and share some laughs, which which helped a lot. Um the the first year was was so hard. I mean, just so hard. Not not to know what you're gonna do every day.

SPEAKER_08 52:52

So right now what I do is uh try to occupy my time, stay busy. Uh when I work, I'm working as a uh mental health crisis worker in Wisconsin, and I think that job is very fitting for me because of my experience not only in law enforcement, but because of my own personal and professional mental health challenges. I I think I have a value that other people don't have, and I think it's a good fit for me. And you know, on my off time, I do a lot of outdoor stuff. I exercise, I walk, I like to go kayaking, spend time with my family, with my children.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

In 2020, Adam created Stop the Threat, Stop the Stigma to reduce stigma in law enforcement around mental health.

SPEAKER_08 53:36

I think stop the threat, stop the stigma is bigger than me. It's about helping other people and being able to put my experience out there so somebody may hear what I went through and understand that they're not alone, that they're not the only one going through what they're going through, and that so many other first responders are struggling with their mental health.

SPEAKER_11 53:58

So I help people prepare for you know their written part of their exam, uh, that interview portion of their exam, but also looking at um their inventory of work and how they want to look at any kind of resumes they have, additionally, looking at their own readiness. But I actually walk them through how to actually uh look at policy, study policy. Um, I, you know, help them with mechanisms to be able to retain information for them when they're doing the written test, when they're um, you know, going to their oral interviews. I actually wrote uh a book on that survival guide to law enforcement promotional preparation. And then, of course, I love uh being a professor at the University of San Diego and also at a the local junior college here, the San Joaquin Delta Post Academy. Lastly, I just want to add that I'm also um, you know, for Noble, the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, which I've been a part of for over two decades. I love that I get to be a part of that um in the safety and wellness committee. I love the balance because I still get to spend time with my grandson, who's two, and um all of our adult children. We have five of those. We have a blended family, but uh I'm just grateful.

SPEAKER_12 55:08

Life happens inside you, it doesn't happen outside you. I see that every day being a yoga teacher and helping people with what's going on in their lives. And it's surprising all the questions you get that people will ask you, not only about yoga, but just about life with the nursing. I'm I'm working with kids with uh autistic challenges.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

You know, I got a master's after retirement in sports psychology, another master's in pastoral theology. Then I did an additional two-year spiritual direction school on top of the master's in theology, where I was doing my own work and going on retreats, to where I plugged back in through a lot of twists and turns to doing police chaplaincy, peer support, and wellness advocacy, primarily for police, but also other first responders and veterans. And it allowed me to plug back in and contribute to the community where I find deep meaning and purpose. And I can go speak my mind and be myself when I'm at a police station and I'm I'm back to being a part of the community, I hope, and contributing in a meaningful manner in some like small way for some of them when they're going through a rough time.

SPEAKER_11 56:22

You have this beautiful space to do whatever you want to do. And it's okay if you do it another five or 10 years, and then you say, maybe I want to do something else after that five or 10 years. It's not a scary place, it's a beautiful place. Um, you know, you're just because you're kind of finishing one career doesn't mean you can't have another career or a half a career.

SPEAKER_19 56:46

A lot's happened in the past two years, aside from retirement being dealing with some pretty significant health stuff. So rebuilding from that. So when I can, I like to go to work and visit my shift. It's funny, it'll always be my shift, right? I'll always say that probably forever. Now that I'm retired, I own a knife making company. It's called the Armour's Knife and Tool Company. It allows me to be creative, it allows me to just focus on something other than me. It's important to give back in whatever way you can. And for me, the joy of making a product and giving it to someone, it does a lot for me on many levels. I try to come back to gratitude every single day because um it's easy to get caught up in the negative things in life. It's been encouraging and it's a great opportunity for me to give back something to this world.

SPEAKER_06 57:33

So, Mike, I know you were with us once already. Here's what we need for the firefighters and their spouses in this region. We need a rock star couple who has been in the fire service for a long time, who has never had any problems in their marriage to come talk about firefighter marriage. I'm glad you're laughing, because guess what? Those people weren't available. Alright? You get up, okay? You get up.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

In our retirement series, we interviewed many first responders and discussed several interesting topics. There are tried and true steps you can take to make your path from hire to retire a little smoother. No matter where you are on the timeline of your career as a first responder, our hope is you were able to take away some important guidance, advice, or maybe even reassurance from the material we shared in our series on retirement. Responder Resilience would like to thank all of the first responders and experts who shared their life and career experiences in these episodes. Alexander Graham Belt said, when one door closes, another door opens. But we so often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the ones which opened for us. What are your ideas, plans, and dreams about retirement? Share them with us in the comment section. We want to personally thank all of you for listening, supporting, and believing in all of the work we're doing behind the scenes. It is all with all of you in mind, and we are forever grateful. Be welcome.