Clinician’s Guide to Building Trust with Law Enforcement | S5 E11

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Be really genuine and honest with what you know and what what you don't know. And it's really just humanizing us, humanizing them, connecting. We do that with uh it could be a ride-along. If it's your first ride-along, say, hey, this is my first ride-along. I'm here to, you know, get a better understanding of what you do and how this job impacts you. I may not be the right person as a clinician. Like I can help you with this piece, but I think it would really benefit you to talk to somebody who's actually walked in your shoes, who's been through a similar experience. Retirement is about powering down. It's about connecting, it's about fostering and building new relationships.

Voiceover 0:45

Welcome to Responder Resilience, along with my co-host, Dr. Stacey Raymond. I'm David Dashinger. In today's episode, we're going to be bringing together the worlds of mental health and law enforcement, and our guest is Dr. Medina Baumgard. She's a police psychologist, and we're going to be discussing crucial topics for clinicians and police officers. We're going to be covering the intricacies of law enforcement, retirement, embedded clinicians, and effective strategies for building trust. Remember to like and subscribe. YouTube respond resilience, Facebook, Responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and go over to our website, respondertv.com for past episodes and get information. This episode is made possible by the First Responder Center for Excellence. Discover more at FirstresponderCenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. Our resource partner, Fight Camp, is offering an exclusive deal for viewers of responder resilience. For a limited time, you can get an amazing free package valued at $238, which includes punch crackers, quick wraps, and a free 45-day membership trial. Don't miss out. Email us at inforresponderTV.com with the subject line Fight Camp to claim your free package today. We'll be right back to speak with Dr. Baumgart after this.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

In this family, more of us die by our own hands and by the hazards of the job.

SPEAKER_05 2:07

In this family, up to a quarter of 911 telecommunicators have symptoms of post-traumatic stress. In this family, our mental health and wellness are in crisis, while responders are quietly suffering.

SPEAKER_07 2:19

In this family, many struggle with job-related stress.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

In this family, we have to help.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Welcome to Responder Resilience. We co-host retired lieutenant David Thatchener, Dr. Stacy Raymond, and Body Namely, LCSWMTV.

Voiceover 2:59

I'd like to welcome our guest, Dr. Medina Baumgart. She's a licensed psychologist in California and a Ford certified specialist in police and public safety psychology. She works full-time as an embedded psychologist within a law enforcement agency where she provides therapy, critical incident debriefings, crisis response, and critical incident rollouts, training and consultation to peer support and chaplains programs. And outside of all that, she also supports patrol stations and jail facilities. Dr. Baumgart, welcome to Responder Resilience.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_05 3:32

So, Dr. Baumgart, I'd like to start by asking you to just share some insights into your background, your experience, and how you became a police psychologist, and also what is it like to be uh married to a police officer who is uh newly retired?

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Yeah, so I uh my initial focus going into graduate school was forensic psychology. So that mix in between the criminal justice system and law. Um I began my career working in a jail facility. So I spent eight years uh working in jails, primarily with adult male inmate population. Um obviously interacting with the uh deputies and custody assistants in that facility. Um and then I would say about five years into that, postgraduate, um, I just started losing my passion for it. Um I was thinking, you know, I at some point in time I just need to change it up, try something different. Um, and right about that time is when um the job posting for the agency I'm with now came across. And um it happened to be geographically much closer. So the thought of not having to commute was nice. Um, it was working within a law enforcement agency, um, which was something new, but I also felt that working in the jail and building those relationships um with the personnel coupled with being married to a police officer would help me. Um, and so then 10 years ago, I landed at my agency. And um it's by far been one of the most um rewarding and challenging experiences I've had uh professionally and personally. Um about four years ago, I decided to change my focus from forensic psychology to police and public safety psychology and um attain board certification uh within that specialty. So um it's uh being married to a police officer definitely helps, um, gives me a different lens. Um and I like to, you know, weave the personal experience in with the professional when I'm interacting with folks.

Voiceover 5:46

That's great. We were talking offline, you were giving us a little glimpse into sort of the ratio of uh clinicians to um officers in your department. And um, could you talk a little bit about the role, maybe in general terms, of embedded clinicians within police and law enforcement agencies and talk about how their presence impacts the officers and the general mental health culture of the agency?

SPEAKER_04 6:08

Sure, absolutely. So within my agency, we have sort of like two uh types of psychologists. So one psychologist uh primarily focuses on providing treatment in our clinics, and we have multiple clinics. We're a large county, so we have multiple clinics spread throughout our county. Um, and then our other psychologists focus more on the boots on the ground. Um, so we're out there, you know, building relationships, which is key, I think, with any sort of embedded clinician within any first responder agency. Um, trust is key. We can have all the resources in the world, but if they don't trust you, they're not gonna use it. So um part of our job in being out in the field, and I'm assigned to some patrol stations and jail facilities, um, is really just being a consistent presence. I call it intentional loitering and just building the relationships, um, really humanizing psychologists and clinicians. Because I think um I've learned in just conversations with folks that some have had not so great experiences in the past with clinicians. And so they have all kinds of ideas about what we do and who we are. Yeah. Um, and it's really just humanizing us, humanizing them, connecting. Um, we do that with uh it could be a ride-along, it could be attending um briefings, which are like roll calls at other agencies. Um definitely, you know, connection is fostered, you know, through responding to unfortunate incidents like line of duty deaths or major critical incidents. Um and it just plays such an integral part in not only um the organization's well-being, but the individuals working within that organization.

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SPEAKER_05 9:17

Intentional loitering. I like that.

Voiceover 9:19

What are some things people, you know, because it's intimidating being around law enforcement personnel? Law enforcement personnel and not necessarily, you know, uh gonna lower their guard to someone who's uh who they don't know. So what what do you suggest?

SPEAKER_04 9:33

Yeah, I would say, you know, just kind of jump right in. I know most agencies will do ride-alongs um for members of the community. So I mean, jumping in and just be really genuine and honest with what you know and what what you don't know. You know, if it's your first ride-along, say, hey, this is my first ride-along. Uh, I'm here to, you know, get a better understanding of what you do and how this job impacts you. Um, and you let me know how I can be, you know, present, but also out of your way. Um, you know, and just really doing that. I feel like sometimes um clinicians in our own um anxiety and uncertainty, um, because obviously first responders, it can be a little intimidating, like you said, um, we'll either try to talk too much, yeah, almost approve ourselves, um, you know, or just completely shut down. And I think finding a middle ground there uh is so, so important.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

If you think about it, therapists are uh talkers and feelers, right? And then police officers are doers, right? So they're you're coming at you know, each other from different um wavelengths almost. Um do you have something like a police, like a citizen police academy that uh can people can attend? Like do you find that to be helpful for clinicians?

SPEAKER_04 10:55

Um, I mean, most definitely. Uh the agencies or I'm sorry, the patrol stations uh that I covered do have the community academies. Okay. I think that would be uh fantastic. And if there's any, even if there's community events, right, like a coffee with a cop or anything like that. Yeah, right. Where you can just be present, um, engage, have an opportunity to meet the folks.

Voiceover 11:18

Right. I think to that point, um clinician who wants to get involved, like you're describing, really has to kind of find the social media channels where these events are um presented, right? Like so you know that there's a tip a cop or there's a charity event coming up, or maybe a um could be a sports thing. Um they're out there on social media, and if you start monitoring them, you can start showing up and being present and kind of seeing the agency and getting to know people. And they tend to be much more casual at those things than they are at work on duty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:53

I found um because I work with police as well, like especially after the George Floyd murder and other racial incidents and excessive use of force, that you know, police feel that the public really, you know, doesn't like them or that you know the the public doesn't really understand them. So how do you how do you break through that barrier when you're you know having a when a clinician is trying to connect with a police officer?

SPEAKER_04 12:21

I think uh that's such a good point because I really do feel like the culture shifted and while there yeah, and while there may have been some resistance or apprehension to talking with a clinician after the fact, um I it definitely um got much worse. I think um, you know, uh having these somewhat benign interactions, um, you know, and and again that goes back to humanizing it, right? I think sometimes I know I did when I first um entered my agency, I don't I have these grand ideas that you know every type of interaction I'm gonna be doing is some sort of you know psychological intervention uh in the traditional sense, and that's really not the case.

SPEAKER_05 13:03

No.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

Um I think if you when I started building relationships at my unit, it was, you know, I'm gonna show up, you kind of get looks like who the heck is this person?

SPEAKER_06 13:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

Um and then you just keep showing up, keep showing up. You know, big events happen, you're there. Um, even if it's a you know a major incident, let's say you're a clinician kind of on the outskirts of it, um, even just sending, you know, a card saying thank you or you know, some snacks uh to the agents.

SPEAKER_07 13:34

They like food.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

Yeah, yeah, food. I'm I've always tell people I'm not above feeding people to get some report. Um but yeah, just these very simple human things um can they far, far, far are more successful than kind of trying to be clinical or you know the subject matter expert in in mental health things. It's like just being human.

Voiceover 13:58

Well, I know this is a topic near and dear to your heart as it is to ours, and it's retirement. Um in your experience, what unique challenges do law enforcement officers face as they near or get into retirement? And what strategies do you recommend to help them navigate these changes?

SPEAKER_04 14:15

Yeah, so many challenges. I always say the job um wires your brain and body to protect, um, coupled with the training and experiences that you get. And unfortunately, um that's the opposite uh of what you want to be doing in retirement, right? Retirement is about powering down, it's about connecting, it's about fostering and building new relationships and new purpose. Um, I would say the biggest challenges that I've seen, um, I know identity is a big one. And I think some officers do a really good job of maintaining a balanced identity throughout their career. Um, others, like my husband was a perfect example, he was the all-in guy. Um everything on duty, off-duty, uh, was being a cop. And so obviously, you know, when he retired, that was a huge part of his identity gone. And it's trying to figure out, you know, what do I do now? Um another piece that I think often gets overlooked is the impact of the nervous system. Um, when you're chronically in this hypervigilant state and you're bombarded by stimuli, whether that's scanning your environment, listening to radio traffic, um, when I'm in on a ride-along, there's sometimes two or three radio channels going on at the same time, um, interacting with people, responding to calls for service, making all of these decisions. Um, it really trains and conditions your nervous system um to operate at a higher level of arousal than kind of the normal population. Right. And when you retire, um, the same as if you're going like off work for injury or you're relieved of duty for an investigation, anytime that body goes from one mode to another, I always say the brain may understand the transition, uh, the body is gonna take a little bit. You know, and I I always reflect it back to, you know, when I'm talking to officers and retirees is think about when you first started the job. And think about that first hot call that you went on and the adrenaline and what you sounded like over the radio. You know, you could hear it, and then over time, you know, your your body gets used to it. So even the perception of I'm stressed or I'm you know cranked on, you may not feel that and genuinely think I'm okay.

SPEAKER_06 16:44

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Um now when you're home and your nervous system is used to operating on a schedule and it's used to dumping adrenaline and cortisol, um, except now you're home, let's say on your couch watching television, yeah, um, it can be really difficult. And a lot of times retirees will um say, and even nearing retirement, start to experience more anxiety, um, more trips to the emergency room, thinking you're having a uh cardiac event and everything's fine, um, and just not knowing what to do, and that's a really out of control feeling. Oh, sure. Right? When your body's trying to take over and then you're scanning your environment and nothing's wrong, and we always want stuff to make sense, brain and body want to be on the same page. Um, so a lot of times that worst case scenario thinking, um, that fight or flight, that protective instinct is to want to go, oh my gosh, I'm dying, I'm having a heart attack. Worst worst case scenario, and just not having the tools to regulate the nervous system. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:50

Um, go ahead. Um, I I get the feeling it's um stimulus deprivation. That's what I kind of run into with um, you know, not just police, but other um first responders, yeah. That when they slow down and and they're used to having all of the stimuli, um, then the body and the brain then starts giving them, you know, pieces from bad calls and whatnot. And so the first responder thinks they're losing their mind, but it's really it's just this is what their brain is used to. And that that happens oftentimes in in retirement.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah. And then it's very confusing too, because it's like the body's doing one thing, the brain's trying to figure it out. Um, sometimes there's events that um, you know, officers think, hey, I'm I'm good with that, that event. Um it's fine. I don't, you know, everything's okay. And it's like depending on where you work and how busy it is, if you're jumping from call to call to call to call, um, it's not even an intentional process. The brain just doesn't have time to process. And so it just, you know, stick it in a container, move on, stick it in a container, move on.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

Yeah, but they never go back to the compartment or the bucket, right? They never dump the bucket, they don't go rummaging in there and say, Well, you know, did I fully process that that nasty call? No, and it just sits in there and percolates.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Yes, yeah. And then certain things, you know, it could be a stimulus. Um, you know, while you're retired, you're on a boat fishing, and some sound or something brings it up. And just not understanding where that's coming from, why that's happening, um, or what to do about it, um, can be really problematic. And I think most first responders have ways of of dealing with discomfort during their career. I know um, you know, avoidance is a big one.

SPEAKER_05 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Um, whether that's intentionally, whether that's by staying busy, by drinking alcohol, um, or leaning on other unhealthy habits. And I always say, you know, when we're stressed, we revert to our level of training. So if my training tells me to keep Distracting, or to have a drink, or to do something else. Um, that's what I'm gonna do in retirement. Um, and now you don't have the support system that you did before. Now you don't have those social connections that you did before, and that could be a slippery slope.

Voiceover 20:16

Yeah, that's that's one of the biggest challenges is replacing that tribe with um something new, and maybe you're starting from scratch to um to find that new tribe and and new community, and they may be civilians, not people that understand the the world of law enforcement or firefighting or EMS.

SPEAKER_07 20:32

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Voiceover 21:34

There are numerous challenges, and they're they're pretty uh formidable in terms of you know coming fast and furious as soon as you kind of walk out the door and you know and start that retirement phase.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

And I think there's a big stigma to, you know, a lot of times um I think the expectation, right, when people retire, what do people say? Oh, congratulations, it's gonna be so great. I wish I was retired. Right. And so I feel like it puts this expectation like I should be okay in retirement. Sure. And then when these things pop up, why am I not okay?

unknown 22:08

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Something's wrong with me. Yeah. And that just is a catalyst for all of those other things.

SPEAKER_05 22:13

You know, as you said, David, you know, they lose that tribe. This is why I've I've always thought that it would be a great idea for retirees to be part of the peer support team because they've been there, done that. And then they get to stay connected, you know, to helping out younger police officers. But I don't find that to be a trend. Um, it's too bad. It would help them stay connected. But um, speaking of peer support teams, um, Dr. Baumgart, can you comment on how, you know, what role does that play outside of um, you know, being an embedded clinician? Like how do you what what's the purpose of the peer support team?

SPEAKER_04 22:52

I I view our peer support team um, I it really I with combined with our law enforcement chaplains, they're force multipliers.

SPEAKER_06 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Um, you know, there's going to be situations where um I may not be the right person as a clinician. Like I can help you with this piece, but I think it would really benefit you to talk to somebody who's actually walked in your shoes, who's been through a similar experience.

SPEAKER_06 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

Um, and I think, you know, sometimes I've seen clinicians kind of get sucked into a power struggle. You know, well, I'm the expert, I'm the professional, therefore I know better. Um instead of viewing pure support as that false multiplier component of, you know, we can work together. The mission's the same. We want to help people. Um, we're just coming at it from different sides.

SPEAKER_05 23:44

Right. You know, and most people don't need the uh therapist, right? They just need to chat and and feel heard and and you know, have somebody resonate with them, and that might be all that they need, and then they don't feel alone with it, or they don't feel like their reaction to that critical incident was bizarre because they have a fellow officer saying, Yeah, man, that happened to me when I also went to that so went to a suicide five years ago, you know. Yeah, I couldn't sleep or I had intrusive images or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

So yeah, and I feel like, you know, there's I I mean, I completely agree with you, Stacey. I always say not everything needs to be a therapy session. Yeah. Um, you know, and instead of over pathologizing normal responses, if we can talk somebody through, and if a peer can do that, because they're the boots on the ground, yeah, they're seeing their partners day in and day out. Um, and if they can do that, and then they also have a link to you know other services. So should some additional support be needed, yeah, they can, you know, get those things dialed in to help the person. But yeah, peer support teams, I think, are vital to any first responder profession.

Voiceover 24:53

I want to jump to something else, and it's um a term I'm not that familiar with. It's co-response models. Can you talk a little bit about what those are and how do they support law enforcement personnel?

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Yeah, sure. So um there's obviously I think the more traditional co-response model is like an officer paired with a clinician helping a member of the community who's experiencing a mental health crisis.

SPEAKER_05 25:14

Um but we also call that CIT intervention team. That's what we call it on the East Coast. I don't know. Do you have that on the West Coast? Do you call it that?

SPEAKER_04 25:22

Yes, yes. We have a mental health evaluation team.

SPEAKER_05 25:25

Oh, all right.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

Yeah, so they're county clinicians paired with our deputy personnel. Uh, they get specialized training and um co-respond to calls for service and things involving um mental health issues within our agency uh in terms of co-response and supporting personnel. Um, so when there's a major incident and we respond, we have a psychologist, a peer supporter, at least one peer supporter, and a law enforcement chaplain. Um and we call this our triad of care. So we're really all responding. I think on the back end, it also shows like, hey, we have a team here to support you. Like we got you covered, regardless of what it is. I think boots on the ground as a psychologist responding to stuff, you know, some of those scenes can be very chaotic and stressful and very heavy. So I feel too the benefits of the co-response model not only to help personnel, um, it also helps us as the care providers, whether you're a peer support, a mental health clinician, or a law enforcement chaplain, because what we do is we get to not only during the incident, you know, if one person's, let's say the chaplain or the peer support members connecting right away. And the clinician, we're standing back here, I'm observing, I'm making notes, I'm trying to track, you know, who needs what, get additional resources if I need to. Um, and then afterwards, I think the ability to debrief with multiple with a team that responded immediately after, uh, I think is so beneficial in terms of reducing like compassion, fatigue, and burnout for um for for clinicians, for peer support teams and our chaplains.

Voiceover 27:12

If we go back to the scene you just described, let's say it's a large critical incident, chaotic. How do this could be a helpful to clinicians? I think how how should you navigate that and know when to step back, when to step forward and get involved, when to um, you know, what's hot zones, cold zone, where should you be? Like, how do you tell people to navigate that as a clinician?

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Yeah, so anytime we respond, um, immediately check with whoever the incident commander is. Um, because they're gonna be the ones that know here's what's going on, here's what's safe if it's a situation that's still evolving. They'll tell you, you know, hey, make sure you stay in this area. Um, you know, checking uh for any additional resources if they're needed and available. So that's that co-response bringing in other clinicians or peer support or chaplains. Um, observing, I think observing is really important as clinicians. Um, and I experienced this myself during my first rollout. Um, we want to just jump in and be helpful.

unknown 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Um, but when we get there, you're and it's chaotic and stuff's still evolving, you're like, I don't know what to do. Um, and I struggled with that as a clinician because I felt I was being ineffective. Um come to find out later on the impact that just you being present has. Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:37

You're holding space for them, right? I mean, you're a caring entity that is there, and there's maybe nothing to do, but the fact that they see that you're there has like a I don't know, some sort of healing effect. It ratchets down the I guess the intense alone feeling that each one of them is probably feeling, even though they're both seeing they're all seeing it.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

Yeah, exactly. And I think that that was a big lesson that I learned just getting feedback from other um, you know, deputies and personnel is hey, we saw you there. Thank you for going. And that was helpful for me because I'm I was struggling with okay, I showed up, but I was so ineffective. Right. What did I do? Um, and sometimes it's it's practical stuff, right? Um, sometimes it's oh like a case of water. We could use a case of water over here, you know. I have case of water, I have stress balls in my car, I have tissue in my car, you know, when you respond to these things. Um, and it's really just assessing the need level and then taking being present um and then making notes. So if there's if you notice particular folks are struggling, maybe just make a little note. Um so you can find it.

SPEAKER_05 29:47

In your head, you mean you're not yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm not sending that. I just wanted to be clear. I know you knew that, but any clinicians listening, I just don't want them.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

We don't want to whip out our clipboard and say, No, no, yeah, yeah.

Voiceover 29:59

How about how about follow-up? So now you've kind of made these mental notes. Um, what do you do with that after the um incident's over? And and looks like you know, you need to uh follow up with people that were involved.

SPEAKER_04 30:09

So carrying contacts are so important. Um, you know, that could be showing back up to the unit a day or two later. Um, that could be uh if there's anybody in particular who might be struggling, maybe it's a phone call if you're able to get their information. Um, you know, just to check in or checking in with the supervisor and saying, hey, um, you know, I noticed a lot of folks were struggling with this one.

SPEAKER_06 30:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:35

Um, here's maybe some information. So almost consulting behind the scenes with the supervisor, right? Is here might be some information that you can share with your team to be helpful and encouraging them to reach out to whatever resources are available for them. Um and then also, you know, some agencies may not have knowledge of the resources that are available. Um, so sometimes, you know, even just writing up, let's say, an info sheet of resources in that area that are available for support and giving that to a supervisor or to the agency and say, hey, if you notice these things, uh it's okay, help is available so your people don't have to struggle.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

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SPEAKER_05 32:19

So I I have a question about um reducing stigma around mental health. And so, what initiatives have you observed? What can you share with us that you find you know is actually helpful to reduce stigma around seeking mental health treatment?

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Yeah, so I think um building the relationships that I mentioned earlier is is crucial. Um I also think like we talked about peer support teams earlier. Yeah. Um, you know, with our peer teams, we're selecting people that have had life experience on the job or personal life. Um and a lot of times, you know, during briefings, um, you know, having, I think one of the most effective things, and this comes out of building trust, is having, you know, officers or first responders share with their partners, hey, I called and they helped me with this. Um, hey, it's okay, you know, or hey, I didn't get help and I, you know, my relationship fell apart and I was having issues at work and I was drinking too much. Um, you know, I wish I would have done this. Um, so I think, you know, encouraging folks to share their experiences to whatever extent they're comfortable, even if it's just normalizing that, yeah, these issues are are common and it's okay, and it doesn't mean that you're broken. Um, and that comes from the trust. I think, you know, as a as a clinician, um, you know, if you if you've built that trust, people are going to say, Oh, yeah, I went to go see them and they helped me out a lot.

SPEAKER_05 33:53

Yeah, it's usually word of mouth. They're not gonna go online typically and look for, you know, a therapist.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

That's what I found. Yeah, yeah, it's it's tremendously word of mouth. And to me, that's the best way to combat the stigma. And I think there's some some studies um that have shown that, right? Peer to peer, supervisor to peer, right? If you open up about your mental health uh issues or a time that you sought help, then your partner's gonna be more likely to go seek help. Right, right.

Voiceover 34:24

Well, let's um change the focus and look a little bit towards the future. Um if you kind of you know took out your uh you know, your magic uh wand or you know crystal ball. Crystal ball, yeah. Um what do you see as the future of mental health support and law enforcement? And are there any trends that are going on now that are worth exploring?

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Um I think definitely, I mean, I we we talked about this offline before we started recording, but I think embedded clinicians, that piece is so valuable um to the organization and to the individuals within that organization. Um and I do see you know a lot of the collaboration too, and that co-response of you know your mental health clinician working with your peer support, working with your chaplains. Um, I think that is so, so, so important. Um, another thing too is the retirement. You guys had mentioned retirees and peer support teams. Um, that is so important. Um, our peer support team just started incorporating retirees. Oh, that's great. Some of them are how's that going? I'm really so far so good. Yeah, so far, so good. Um, we started really with a group of our peer supporters who retired, and we said, Hey, here's what we're trying to do. Would you guys mind staying on? Yeah. Um, they already have some of the peer support training and experience.

SPEAKER_06 35:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

Um, and they said, you know, the majority said, Yeah, sure, definitely. Um, and just the you know, kind of anecdotal feedback we get from that is that allows them to still stay engaged.

unknown 35:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:55

So they have a support system, you know, in terms of their own adjustment. Um, and then sometimes too, personnel like talking to somebody who's retired. So if they have any concerns of, oh, I don't want this to get back to my department, you know, you say it's confidential, it's not really, you know, any of those types of things, talking to somebody who's officially done with the department um is is really, really helpful. Um, so I think, yeah, definitely getting that. And I think starting from day one, if I had the magic wand and you know, could make anything happen, um, would be getting trained up for retirement before retirement. Because you don't know. Yeah, and and a lot of I think people take it for granted. I want to do whatever it's 20, 25, 30 years. Yeah, but you don't know. Yeah, sometimes things happen, sometimes you get injured. Um, sometimes you're like, you know what, my family's suffering. Um, I just want to retire so I can spend time with them. Yes. Um, and just really, really, really um, I think in terms of training uh for organizations, um, is train your people to to live well on the job and off the job. So space, yes, right, balance regulate their nervous system, yes, um, building relationships outside of the first responder community um so you're not getting overinvested. Um, you know, things like that, and really, really training people um to do to do that and to train their nervous system to do that, I think is gonna so so so important.

Voiceover 37:30

I'd love to have you share about your book. Um it's called Surviving Retirement, Finding Purpose and Fulfillment Beyond the Badge. Tell us about that and uh where can people find it?

SPEAKER_04 37:39

Yeah, so um so the book is on Amazon and other online retailers. Uh, truth be told, I never sought out to write a book. I was strongly against it after my dissertation and board certification. I said I never want to write anything. Um, but I found um in my own like journey and struggle to understand what my husband was going through and feeling helpless to support him, um, I found that there was some information, uh, but from my lens, not enough to really, you know, give me those tools. Um and so uh, you know, we developed a training course, a retirement training course. And from that, people said, hey, you need to write a book about this. And it really is, I mean, it's the meat and potatoes. Um, it's it's it's an easy read.

unknown 38:32

Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:32

And it's about, you know, hey, here's the different areas of uh retired life that you might find yourself having difficulty adjusting to. Here's how to take inventory, so some questions, kind of self-assessment, self-reflection, right? Uh where you stand, and then here's kind of an explanation of why you might be struggling in this area, and then here's some tools to do something about that and to help yourself. And so, really, the book um, you know, it's intended to just combine all of those things. Um, we do share some of my husband's adjustment, my adjustment as a spouse, right? Just to normalize some of those things.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

Um, but yeah, it's really intended to fill the gap of those things that I was looking for and I couldn't find.

SPEAKER_05 39:17

It's great that it's compiled into a book, right? Because sometimes that's what people they just want, just show me what to read that's rather thorough. I don't want to have to Google this and Google that and and and go to different sources in order to figure out how to face retirement.

Voiceover 39:34

Yeah. Yeah. It's great that it's um matched up with a training component too. So you've got a great resource there. Um, Dr. Baumgart, where can people find you? What are good ways to contact you or find you on social media, website, that type of stuff?

SPEAKER_04 39:48

Yeah, sure. So my website is www.doctorbaumgart.com. Um on Instagram, I'm on there, it's at dr underscore baumgart, and then on My name is Medina Baumgart and people can message me or find me there.

Voiceover 40:03

Um Stacy, any final thoughts for Dr. Baumgart?

SPEAKER_05 40:06

Um just this is fascinating because we really haven't interviewed somebody uh who is an embedded uh clinician within the police department. So this you know what what you share today is gonna enlighten a lot of people. So thank you so much. Thank you.

unknown 40:19

Thank you.

Voiceover 40:20

Yeah, thanks. Um I'm I'm totally digging on everything you said. Uh actually just did a ride along with our sheriff's department here where I live, just to see what it's like, because even having done 21 years in the fire service and corresponded with law enforcement, their world is very different. And um, and so it was eye-opening and really fascinating to see uh all that goes into doing that job.

SPEAKER_04 40:44

Oh yeah, yeah, it's very complex to say the least.

Voiceover 40:49

Well, thanks again for being with us. Um we appreciate you and all the work you're doing, and we invite you to like and subscribe. YouTube responder resilience, Facebook, responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and go to our website, respondertv.com for past episodes and guest information. Until the next time, stay safe, be kind to yourself. Take care.