Family First: Building Resilience at Home with Dr. Rachelle Zemlok | S5 E17

SPEAKER_05 0:00

We live very different lives when it comes to scheduling. Like my life, my husband goes to work for 48 hours. If he gets held over at 72, and then he's coming back, we have young kids at home. You know, we're kind of dealing with that. Depending on how things are going at home and how you're managing them, we know that our support system is a huge piece of resiliency. Because as a spouse, our whole life revolves around this career. Every decision I make has, I gotta check the schedule, I gotta know something about everything. Wow, families, it would be great to know this information ahead of time so that you can navigate it effectively in a relationship at home, right? Because this career, if you let it, will take everything.

Voiceover 0:45

Welcome to Responder Resilience, along with my co-host, Dr. Stacy Raymond. I'm David Dashinger. Today's episode, if you are a first responder or a loved one who's part of a first responder family, then you're in the right place. We're gonna chat with Dr. Rochelle Zemlock. She's a psychologist specializing in responder family wellness. We're gonna dive into why prioritizing family support is crucial and uncover practical ways to help families thrive. So whether you're navigating the demands of this life or supporting someone on the front lines, you won't want to miss this insightful discussion. Remember to like and subscribe, YouTube, responder resilience, Facebook, Responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and check out our website responderTV.com for past episodes and guest information. Our resource partner, Fight Camp, is offering an exclusive deal for viewers of Responder Resilience. For a limited time, you can get an amazing free package valued at $238, which includes punch crackers, quick wraps, and a free 45-day membership trial. Don't miss out. Email us at info at responder TV.com with the subject line Fight Camp to claim your free package today. This episode is made possible by the First Responder Center for Excellence. Discover more at FirstResponderCenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. We'll be right back to speak with Dr. Zemlock after this. In this family, all of us die by our own hands and by the hazards of the job.

SPEAKER_06 2:12

In this family. In this family, our mental health and all this are high strike.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

In this family, many chocolate chocolate strike.

Voiceover 3:16

She's the author of the book, The Firefighter Family Academy, a guide to educate and prepare spouses for the career ahead. And she has a private practice. She speaks across the nation. And she provides education and guidance to help first responders and their loved ones navigate the unique challenges of the profession while strengthening their relationships and resilience. Dr. Zemlock, welcome to Responder Resilience.

SPEAKER_05 3:39

Thank you so much. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_06 3:41

So I'd like to start, Dr. Zemlock. Can you share your journey and what inspired you to focus on family psychology within first responder communities?

SPEAKER_05 3:53

Yeah, absolutely. So, excuse me. My story is that, you know, starting back in high school, I became a first responder family member, right? Like I have two older brothers. I'm the baby sister. My oldest brother went into police work. In law enforcement, I was in high school, very cool experience. Then my next brother went into police work. So now I'm the baby sister to two law enforcement officers, SWAT team, all the things. Dating life, not super easy for me, you know, throughout college, very protective. But that being said, you know, I'm around them. Holidays, you know, look different. Um, I'm observing one of my my oldest brother, he married another officer. So my sister-in-law is now an officer as well. So surrounded by them, and as I went into grad school, I knew I want to become a psychologist. That was a dream of mine, a family psychologist. I lived with both of them because they just took pity on their baby sister. We didn't have money in grad school. So I'm observing them, starting families in this world where their schedules are all over the place. They have a newborn, they're having a random, you know, SWAT call out in the middle of dinner, you know, that we're having, just being around the life. Every time we hung out and went on camping trips, it's with a bunch of cops, right? It's like that was just kind of my life. I have a dissertation that I have to do, and I'm like, I don't know exactly what I want to do it on. Maybe I could help in the police world somewhere. And so I asked my brother. He set me up with a peer support coordinator who'd been running the team for 20 years, very well respected. And he sat down with me and we had a conversation, and he said, you know, you could look into how we could support the families. We're really not great at that. We don't exactly know what to do. And I'm thinking back, what a visionary. That was like over a decade ago. But he's going, We're not doing this really well. Maybe you look into it. And so great, I'm a family member. Um, I want to be a child and family psychologist. So I did my dissertation on the impacts of police work on law enforcement families. And through his connections, I was able to interview officers, spouses of officers, adult children who grew up in the household, and just kind of got this broad family perspective of what each of them had to say about some of the challenges, what really helped them, resiliency factor, you know, just what came up for each of them. And just doing that research in general, I took in, I knew nothing about this world of like mental health and law enforcement. And so it really opened my eyes up of like, whoa, there's a lot going on here that I never knew about. I'm a grad school student, but it inspired me to help and want to do better. It's like I have this role in a family, I, you know, kind of speak the language, I hang out with them. Like, I could help here, right? I can and then my college sweetheart became a firefighter. We got engaged, and now I'm rolling into a marriage as a first responder spouse. But I've already done the dissertation and I'm going into it going, okay, I know something about your job. I know what conversations we need to have, I know how to help support you in this. I know we need a community of other families around us. Like there were things that I learned from my research that I immediately wanted to apply so that we could do this right. And I realized very early on, one, that that was so helpful to us in our life, and my husband just being a better firefighter. And two, that no other spouse had any clue what I was talking about. And it became very clear to me I learned all of this information from my career, and not any of it came to me from the department. We're 14 years in now, still haven't heard from them, right? So there's like there was this huge gap that I was like, why is every family recreating the wheel when we know all of at least this information about it? Yeah. And that inspired me to talk to families because no one was talking to me. I wrote a book for spouses that I wish the chief handed me when I walked in, if nothing else, just give me a little bit of guidance, like what's coming up here, what's going on, because usually it's welcome, and then that's it, you know, figure it out.

Voiceover 8:05

Right. Yeah, exactly. And so I'm curious, like now that you've had this unique perspective on the law enforcement side and the fire side, are there differences in I was wondering the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 8:18

Yeah.

unknown 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:19

What what are you curious about?

Voiceover 8:22

Well, so what do you see that's different? Are law enforcement families and loved ones kind of going through a different ride-along than fire uh fire service families?

SPEAKER_05 8:31

Yeah, there are so there I see a lot of overlap, and sometimes when I'm talking, like I can talk about the the similarities and challenges that come up in relationships, you know, um, but there are also very distinct differences. Like one scheduling alone is different, right? Like we live very different lives when it comes to scheduling. Like my life, my husband goes to work for 48 hours. If he gets held over, it's 72, and then he's coming back. We have young kids at home, you know, we're kind of dealing with that. Law enforcement are oftentimes going in, coming out, going in, coming out, popping in and out. So, like challenges in different ways, you know, in those types of situations. But then there's also like how they view the world, which is very different, right? In law enforcement homes, it's all about they're both want to keep their families very safe, but in different ways. Law enforcement does not want their families to be victimized in any way, right? So it's about, you know, no daycares, child cares, we're not going there, you know, parking certain ways, we're keeping our eyes out, video cameras everywhere. Those types of safety precautions. And in my house, it's all about safety in other ways, keeping our kids safe from danger of themselves, right? It's like you have food in your mouth, you're sitting down, you're not walking. No one's unsupervised about walk about around water anywhere. Like you, they're taking a bath, I'm in there, right? There's like no um, whatever, climbing on ladders, going down slides, helmets on, everyone, doesn't matter who you are. So it's like protective, it bleeds over it's different types of uh views of the world.

SPEAKER_06 10:12

And I think there's you know, this sense where I get to go around with a fire sticker on the back of my car, and off in where we live in California, oftentimes law enforcement families are not flying flags and do, you know, there's a difference in how the public views our servants, and that's our usually loves a firefighter, and they're you know, because the police are disciplinarians, you know, they don't tend to have a negative view uh toward costs.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

Well, sacrificing some people can be a little bit more outwardly proud about it, and that you know, the family experiences that as well. So, yes, differences, similarities.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Fight camp. Hey, first responders, if you're looking to elevate your fitness journey, listen closely. Fight Camp is rolling out a fantastic offer just for you. An absolutely free package that includes punch trackers, quick wraps, and a 45-day membership trial, valued at $238. Discover a new way to work out. It's a way to track your progress in real time with advanced technology. With access to over 3,000 on-demand workouts tailored for all fitness levels, you'll never run out of options. And if you're looking to share the journey, their family-friendly subscriptions make that easy. Join the 35% of Fight Camp members who are military, veterans, and first responders. To get your free package, email us at info at respondertv.com with the subject line Fight Camp.

Voiceover 11:39

So I I wanted to just jump in with this question. Stacy and I had worked on an article together. Uh, generally the topic was our, you know, firefighters, but I think it applies to all first responders. Are we control freaks? And how does that affect the family? You were just describing, you know, the kind of things that we kind of ask our family, you know, family members to do because we want to protect them. What's the is there a downside to that?

SPEAKER_06 12:03

Okay. First responders. I wouldn't throw your husband under the bus. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 12:10

I I won't say control freak. I will say first responders are used to being in control, and I mean they enjoy it because it they think you know it helps protect them in certain ways, right? So, yes, that does lead over. And this is one of the things that wow, families, it would be great to know this information ahead of time so that you can navigate it effectively in a relationship at home, right? I do think that there's this sense of at work, everything kind of happens. There's lists, there's checklists, this is how we do things, there's procedures. You come home, especially if you have young kids, life is chaotic. Life is not that controlled, right? And we can control ourselves, right? So it I think it does become challenging. Um, one of the kind of I think common experiences that you'll hear is uh especially in Fireworld, and I I have heard it from law enforcement families, they get off work and it's like immediately, why is the house such a mess? Right? It's like, why are the counters and this and this and it's driving me crazy? And it's like this overwhelm, and I think that's part of like the come down of work, but also it's chaotic because we've been single parenting by ourselves with young children. Right, and so you know, we need some space to kind of clean up, but also they're so used to everything being in order, you know, at work, and then we have to realize that we're switching from one environment to another and it looks differently. The other way I see it come up is first responders are authorities on scene, right? They show up because people need something, they need them to make decisions, they need to an answer to their problem, and oftentimes again, they will bring that into their relationships at home. Here's the answer, here's what's gonna happen, here's what we're gonna do, whether it's with kids or their spouse. And that is not helpful to loving relationships, is how I'd like to say it, right? Because a relationship is a two-way street. We work together, it's a partnership. There is not one authority figure, but it's hard again if you're not aware that you're stepping out of one role and into the other, it could be very damaging. So it goes to show I feel like there are things that are happening common amongst families, but everyone's unaware of it. So we're all just repeating the same patterns and they're coming up in similar challenges. When if we could just have a little foresight going in saying this is likely to come up, you have to be aware of this and mindful, we could probably help a lot more families navigate it.

SPEAKER_06 14:50

So on that note, can you list some other common challenges that you see in um first responder families?

SPEAKER_05 14:58

Yeah, so that's that's some of the pieces there, but um I think in overall, in general, if I were to say this, it's tools. We don't have enough tools that make sense to us coming into this life, right? If I'm having problems with my marriage or I want to learn something about parenting, I go pick up a book from any bookstore or online, it's talking about you know, structure and checking in every night and making sure you all have dinner at the same time. And like there are these very specific things that research has told us that don't really apply to our lives. And so we feel lost, I think. That's kind of my sense. It's like, well, how do I do that in this life where we don't have structure? My week looks different every single week. I can't get that. According to those books, I'm failing immediately, right? So it's it's just understanding that there are some overarching things. I think if we could all get some tools around it, it would help a lot more families. One of those common things that comes up that I'm sure everyone's heard about is like the transition home is very challenging for a lot of ways. And it's like such an easy thing that if you're in this world, you see it and get it. But if you're a new spouse coming in, you don't know about that. You know, no one told them that that's gonna be a challenge. Like everyone's used to spouses coming home from work, but in this work, it's like it's the you know, the Dr. Gil Martin's hypervigilance biological roller coaster where they're in like this very heightened state at work, and then you know, the spouse is going through something else at home, just home life, a very different world for 12 hours, 24, 48. Then they're shoved together under the same roof and just expected to know what each other need. And it's like, no, that's not happening, right? Yeah. So what happens in couples therapy is they come in and some fight happened or some big blowout, and they don't say we need help with the transition home, but it's like, okay, here's what's going on. Like it's some other fight, but you were in two very different states. You had two different sets of needs, and now you're upset at each other because each other didn't get it, but you never communicated that to one another. Like you never had a conversation about what do you need after this 48 hours, you know, or 12 hours of being gone. So I just think that um things like that, simple conversations around it. Another challenge is just like you have to be so intentional about your relationships, I feel specifically when this career is part of your home, because this career, if you let it, will take everything, right? Personality will go at time, time gets filled, right? If you don't protect it and you don't say, Nope, this is you know, I'm off, or I'm taking vacation, or I'm shutting it down, I'm not looking at emails, right? So things will just like escape if you're not consciously thinking about what we need in our relationship, what I need to do, you know, with my kids, and then putting it in the schedule. We need date nights, we need time to check in at home. Unfortunately, I ask, you know, law enforcement fire couples that I work with, like, okay, when do you just sit down and just talk about the stressors of the day? Even just 20 minutes, and they just stare at me like, who's got time for that? Like, well, you need it, you have to have that. So let's talk about where we're going to fit that in. When do you connect? And so this, I think there's a lot of pieces there. It's not just finding the time, but now first responders don't want to talk about their work because they want to protect their families, right? And that's kind. You want to protect your families. I love that, but it's you can't say nothing about work because as a spouse, our whole life revolves around this career. Every decision I make has I gotta check the schedule, I gotta know something about everything. So if you just never talk about it, that's weird. Like I we're there's this thing that runs my life, and I never hear about it, right? What that starts to do is it starts to create emotional distance. And it's like it starts out as this positive thing. I want to protect my family, but I see it eat away at relationships, and they go, I don't even know you anymore. Right. And we don't want that in relationships. So those are some of the common things that I feel like I'm constantly working with. How do we create time? How do we be intentional? How do we make sure that you understand each other's needs? You have to communicate. And unfortunately, we have to be better communicators than everyone else because we spend so much time apart and so many like missed opportunities. Sometimes you're sleeping when your spouse is up and you're, you know, so it's just not worse communicators, better communicators. So that means we need to put a lot of thought into how we're communicating to our spouse. Yeah.

Voiceover 19:41

Yeah. Yeah, it was a great perspective. I mean, in some ways, it's like we're we're leading dual lives, right? Like the life on the job and then the life at home. And in cases of uh police officers who do undercover work, you know, it's almost like a threefold um, you know, duality because now they have a whole other perception. on and hold their uh created life around their undercover work and then they do have the law enforcement piece and then they come home.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

As firefighters and first responders, we're brilliant at the basics. We master the art of stretching the line and we excel at being there for those who need us most. Yet even the best of us can be caught off guard. We sometimes face unexpected challenges like injury, cancer, or post-traumatic stress attacks. But you're not alone the first responders can affect you. Medical evaluation medical helping account we've got you covered. Remember, we're covered together discover more at firstrespondercenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. The First Responder Center for Excellence. Equip yourself with Exploits for every call.

Voiceover 21:10

Just want to kind of reflect back to what you you mentioned earlier and that's a department where um you know you you mentioned then your your case department really didn't have much uh to say about the family once you kind of got checked in and the you know the rookie level. So what can departments do? Like what would be more effective ways that departments could support families?

SPEAKER_05 21:33

Yeah so I kind of see it's like we're we're starting to address this first responder mental health wellness challenge, right? And we're really just trying to get first responders to see it, understand it, do something for themselves you know sometimes they they don't want to or there's stigma around it. So I I get and understand that and I feel like that's important. But we're seeing all these impacts and we're trying to help them understand like the signs and symptoms and impacts but it's like usually very early on one three five years in that first responder is starting a family not always but oftentimes you start to see that right they're getting married or having kids so that means that all those impacts that we see it's affecting people at home right we're not maybe thinking about them all the time but they are seeing it too. And so as a spouse what that looks like to us if no one's talking to us about what's going on with the whole mentor mental health you know challenge we just see you know detachment right or social isolation or irritability or anger or more drink like we're just observing things that are not working well at home. And if we don't have any insight as to what that is why that is and what to do about it we just think it's like this is an us problem right what is happening with us here what is happening with you you need to see someone it becomes like this is just we're in a bubble but that becomes stressful that becomes challenging we don't how know how to navigate this family stress absolutely exacerbates first respond stress you ask any of them oh yeah home life stress you can pretend to turn it off but it is of course affecting you no one's taught them how to communicate what's going on with them with their own family, right? And so it exacerbates all those symptoms I absolutely think that makes them a better or worse employee right depending on how things are going at home and how you're managing them. We know that our support system is a huge piece of resiliency. So if that is you know struggling or failing or stressed out or doesn't understand what is happening with you, we've got some real big challenges right so my thought is like if departments did support like if they were the ones to give me this information, you know, I see the benefits of us in our life just navigating it well him to be a more well rounded you know rested resilient first responder right because he's like my family's good we're taking care of nothing's going on I can focus at work he gets sent on strike teams you know he knows that we're taken care of so that's like and the military does this very well right it took them you know time to figure it out right but every year there's more and more money in the budget for military families. So in my head I'm going this must be working well for them right because they are serving their families. Yeah so that is what I I would hope to see and we could do that in so many ways in departments it could be a lot of people do the academy day right the families come in on the academy as you'd mentioned I feel like that's one of the most popular things. But one of the challenges with that is that oftentimes you bring in very young recruits and they have not even gotten close to starting a family and nowadays you'll hear they're living with their parents right so it's like you do a family day and it's their parents that have shown up and maybe they get married three years later or five years later and you never talk to them again. And that is what happened in our situation they did a family day we were not engaged yet um you know his parents were there and then they just never invited us back to anything again. So they completely missed me right and I've been in the department for 14 years. So it's like you you can't just do one thing how are you capturing the spouses that come in how are you capturing the second marriage spouses that come in right there's a whole it's like you as a department you have to keep reaching out to those families. Okay. I think that annual family events would be helpful sometimes people chiefs will tell me well I tried to do that nobody showed up so we never did it again and it's like okay you have to keep trying because trust right they're not sure what's gonna happen here is it you know who's showing up what are you telling my family I don't want to come back oftentimes they send out an email and they all delete it they never bring it home and I always tell you every spouse I've talked to wants this they want more they want to be connected and involved they don't have the community that the first responders have so get it into the hands of spouses.

SPEAKER_06 26:10

I know that's hard but connect with some spouses that are well connected and ask them to spread the news you know and it has to be kid friendly too because you know they're not gonna want to get to you know so maybe an event friendly where they where the kids can come child care.

SPEAKER_05 26:26

I've heard of people you know getting some teenagers to help out you know some color whatever um there's I think also whenever critical incidents happen we don't do a great job figuring out how the spouse is doing what information should come home to them what is helpful to do in these next couple of weeks that's going to help you and your family. And then just education in general um we to everything we're trying to get to the first responders why aren't we also trying to get that information to spouses because I feel like as a spouse I am the front line of defense for my husband's mental health wellness right you he can go to work and say oh I'm fine how are you doing that was yeah I'm fine I'm fine but I at home because I live under the same roof I'm gonna be the first person to identify if he's not sleeping well if he's having nightmares panic attacks if he's drinking more if he's socially isolating he's angry but if nobody's educated me on these are warning signs or symptoms that should be addressed I do nothing with it. I just go you're different something's wrong I don't know what this is and they and they and spouses reach out to me and they're like I don't know what to do but I see all these things right they have no clue who their resources are and departments will say we told them I'm like I promise you families come in over and over they have no clue who their EAP is they get free sessions they'd never even heard of that before. So it's like there's just some basic pieces that I feel like we could be doing for families that I I think would make big impacts you know just getting them the the information they need.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Introducing FDTs the only gourmet tea crafted with first responders and their families in mind. Proudly firefighter and veteran owned our collection of gourmet organic teas is uniquely designed to honor those who are on the front lines to protect our communities. At FDT's we believe in quality that's why we source the freshest organic tea available offering you the most popular flavors that not only excite your taste buds but also bring comfort and relaxation to your daily life. Indulge in our specialty blends classic Earl Grey, soothing chamomile, vibrant green tea with ginger root, decadent chocolate salty caramel black tea, and robust Irish breakfast FDTs makes for a special and unique gift perfect for any occasion or season. Taste the difference and show your appreciation for the rescuers in your life with FDTs available on FDTs.com and in our Etsy store Fire Department Prince also available on Walmart.com as Fire Department Prince Dr.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

Zemlock can you share maybe a success story where um family support made a difference uh for a first responder yeah so I run um I started running spouse support groups and so um I have spouse it's like a small intimate group right but spouses kind of come in use it and when they feel like they've gotten what they need out of it they can go and we'll invite others in uh and I just started doing going like yeah let's get some spouses together but it really kind of took its own form and spouses were so happy to have this space even if we're just meeting once a month and it's virtual so they don't even live next to each other but just connecting with other people and I've had spouses come in who are desperately struggling right they're going I don't know if we can do this anymore they've asked their spouses to leave the career they're going this is too much for us we have young kids now I I can't manage it. So I invited them in well why don't you come you know to our spouse group and just through the support right other spouses who've been through it who have kids a little bit older saying oh I remember being there I promise you it gets better here's some things that we worked on or we're going through the same thing and they're like just communicating about like yes we have that too we experienced that and they're kind of laughing about it sometimes I just saw over months the stress level even now they develop skills because they're like understanding how to navigate it. They don't feel alone they don't feel like it's just them they see other people successful at it and within maybe four to six months the spouse is going you know what I think we've decided this is for us told me we got this like we and I'm I'm sitting here going I didn't change their schedule I didn't change their life I didn't all I did was give them a community that gets it and understands and just allowed to see through other people's eyes and poof they're like I think I got what I needed and they move forward. So that in a loan is just like we know we're we're social beings we want to be connected to communities that get us firefighters cops other first responders they get that immediately when they go to work they go to work and it just shows up there's their community that everybody here gets it in some way spouses don't have that and oftentimes sometimes we keep them isolated or separated by you know for whatever reasons or we don't think it's important to them or the responder doesn't see it as important to them. But spouses need that too if you want them to successfully navigate this life. And that was something that I learned from my dissertation when I did it the spouses themselves brought up other police families. They said one of the biggest helpers when we went through this thing this family showed up for us they brought us food they did this the kids brought up we had block parties these were like my uncles they they felt very connected that there were other families who were like them but the first responder actually never brought it up in their interview and that's what made me think about this this is very important to the families I think because it's unique and different first responders don't even have to think about it because it's just that work for them. They don't have to go build their community right so I think that in itself has been proof to me that like there's something here that support is useful.

Voiceover 32:36

We did start talking about the recruit academy level and how this all comes into play let's fast forward to like the retirement piece.

SPEAKER_05 32:44

What are you seeing um how the dynamics change obviously the responder's not going to work anymore now they're home how are you seeing those dynamics change and how do you help people navigate that piece oh boy yeah so it's this interesting thing when we come into this work it's like this whole big adjustment going wait my spouse isn't here for like this many hours this long of time like we haven't seen them they're gone for nights it's like nobody envisions their marriage that way and sometimes like you don't think like oh wow I'm gonna spend you know two thirds of the night with my husband and the rest of it he's gonna be gone you know and so there's this adjustment that happens and then you're in and you're like okay and then you you figure it out and you adapt somewhere along the way and then retirement and retirement happens much earlier than a lot of professions here right there's this new adjustment where now we go back to being around each other all the time but we've adjusted to not so I do think there are some kind of funny probably not all the time adjustments where it's like you're home all the time now and I'm not used to this right I was used I adapted and adjusted to like space within our relationship.

SPEAKER_06 34:04

Right.

SPEAKER_05 34:05

And now there's no there's no space right so it's like I think that oftentimes people think that retirement's just going to be wonderful right you're not I'm not working. The stress is gone. So it's just going to be great. And then you know a couple weeks later you start to feel the differences or you know a couple months or whatever it is and you go oh boy this is very different. So there's a lot of I feel like there's a lot of like preparation that should be happening beforehand to really just think about it instead of just ignoring it until it gets there. I don't think that's the right approach. I think couples the couples that I've seen really successful at this is they start living if they think about what does retirement look like what do we want it to feel like what do we want to be doing and maybe even two years one year before that happens they're starting to do those things already they're not just waiting until then because they're maybe taking more time vacations they're traveling they're picking up those hobbies that they talked about so they get a real sense of it so that when it does happen it's it's a transition that's a little bit more seamless. I do think that if you're used to space though, you're gonna have to create space in retirement hobbies right you have to have other things you're pursuing versus just thinking you're gonna hang out at home all day and get tired of each other when you were never doing that before you know and from the first responder perspective firefighter specific you might be able to relate to this where they on their days off our days look very different as families oftentimes it's like oh you know dad's home so we're doing this and it's family time and it's and it's that well suddenly when he's home um when this firefighter was home all the time things didn't happen like that every day because he's home every day and he's going well what about family dinner? Like why aren't we all getting together and they're like teenagers you know they're like we only do that on your off days but now all your days are off days and we're not gonna do that every day. And it's like blowing his mind like what do you mean you don't do this on days when I'm not here so it's like see it's just talks ahead of time what does this look like adapting adjusting and like also if it's really challenging get help. Like I've had people reach out in retirement and spouses going I need support in this like I'm not sure how to do this you know and so it's okay it's okay to still you know get help. It's a big transition.

SPEAKER_03 36:34

Calling all mental health professionals join us for the clinician master class series working with first responders and empower your practice with expert insights and actionable strategies brought to you by the Responder Resilience Podcast. Dive deep on working with EMS and 911 personnel with seasoned therapists Dr. Nicole Navega and Bonnie Rumili Sonny Provetto shares specific knowledge and tools to support police Dr. Stacy Raymond offers professional insights on working with veterans and Dr. Robbie Adler Tapia covers working with firefighters in a clinical setting subject expert Elizabeth Paul covers suicide and psychological autopsies. Patrick Fitzgibbon does a deep dive on inpatient treatment facilities and Dr.

SPEAKER_05 37:13

John Violanti covers law enforcement mental wellness get ready to transform your practice subscribe and stream anytime on our channel YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn Apple Podcasts and Spotify stay in the loop and sign up now at responderTV.com I'd love you to speak a little bit about your work as a clinical psychologist and also um your speaking your book your podcast anything else you'd like to share about absolutely yeah so I'm located in California um first responder family psychology is my private practice name and any you know resident of California I'm licensed to treat I see couples individuals due teens in person virtual I also run spouses groups if spouses are interested in that or if departments are interested in more information feel free to reach out and I can message you about that and I also yeah I speak um all over to you know leadership down to line level and families talk about you know resilience and wellness and family um you know just like dynamics it really depends I kind of craft you know talks based on what the department is looking for but happy to field any questions and like you said I have a book Firefighter Family Academy which you can find on my website you can find um you know on Amazon but if anyone's looking to reach out and connect with me you can go to my website First Responder Family Psychology and you can email me directly from there.

Voiceover 38:50

Fantastic Stacy any final thoughts just um Dr.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

Zemlock just thank you so much for bringing this this piece into you know looking at first responders the family the impact on the family how the family can adjust what they can expect it's just critical and we haven't had you know too much focus I would say David right on um you know what the family can expect I appreciate that and I know it's it's challenging departments are often like uh we want to talk to the families we're not sure what to say or or do with them and I understand that I have so many free resources online if you look at my website I try to put links on there I've got blogs I've got videos I have a podcast code three families which is specifically for spouses so like I've tried to put out a lot of information if anyone's looking for something very specific you can email me. I probably have a link to something online somewhere so um I want to try and help guide not only families but departments and trying to get the messages out as well because it is um you know near and dear to my heart and thank you for sharing those resources and especially doing this work because um as you said earlier

Voiceover 40:00

Uh the families are really the first line of um awareness for first responder mental health and wellness. So we need to keep them as resilient as the first responder.

SPEAKER_05 40:11

Thank you. Appreciate both of you and your time and bringing me on for the message. Thanks.

Voiceover 40:16

Yeah, our pleasure. Remember to like and subscribe. YouTube responder resilience, Facebook, Responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and go to our website, respondertv.com for past episodes and guest information. Till the next time, stay safe, be kind to yourself. Take care.