Confronting Vicarious Trauma: A Self-Care Guide | S5 E8

SPEAKER_07 0:00

Vicarious trauma is the indirect trauma that we absorb as people, as individuals. It has nothing to do with anything else. It's the fact that we care. I was in roll call and I'm I work with these officers, right? But the incident occurred in that room from one word somebody said to me, and I exploded. Everything that comes along with being a black woman, I have to understand that and take good care of myself in order to be able to help other people. But it's putting those boundaries in place and practicing those boundaries, understanding that it's you first. You can't help somebody else if you're not good for yourself.

Voiceover 0:45

Welcome to Responder Resilience, along with my co-hosts, Dr. Stacy Raymond and Bonnie Romoli, LCSW EMT. I'm David Dashinger. Today we're honored to have Dr. Felisa Asbury. She's a retired law enforcement veteran and CEO of Peacock Training and Consulting Group. Join us as we explore vicarious trauma, the importance of the four domains. We'll be talking about self-care and how leadership can foster resilience. Remember to like and subscribe, YouTube, Responder Resilience, Facebook, Responder Wellness Inc. and Responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and please check out our website, responderTV.com for past episodes and guest information. This episode is made possible by the First Responder Center for Excellence. Discover more at FirstResponderCenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. Our resource partner, Fight Camp, is offering an exclusive deal for viewers of responder resilience. For a limited time, you can get an amazing free package valued at $238, which includes punch crackers, quick wraps, and a free 45-day membership trial. Don't miss out. Email us at inforresponderTV.com with the subject line Fight Camp to claim your free package today. We'll be right back to speak with Dr. Felisa after this. In this family, more of us die by our own hands and by the hazards of the job.

SPEAKER_06 2:04

In this family, up to a quarter of 911 telecommunicators have symptoms of post-traumatic stress. In this family, our mental health and wellness are in crisis, while responders are quietly suffering.

Voiceover 2:17

In this family, many struggle with job-related stress, burnout, injury, street disruptions, substance abuse, and relationship problems. In this family, we can help the helpers.

Bonnie Rumilly 2:29

With vital information and resources, resilience strategies, and success stories of overcoming the obstacles.

Voiceover 2:39

Welcome to Responder Resilience. We co-host retired Lieutenant David Dashinger, Dr. Stacey Raymond, and Bonnie Rumley, LCSW EMTV. We'd like to welcome Dr. Felisa Asbury. She's a retired 27-year law enforcement veteran with a PhD in psychology, and she now serves as a life coach and CEO of Peacock Training and Consulting Group. Her flagship programs, Authentic All the Time, Peacock Pulse, and Blue Pulse, focus on first responders and organizations seeking greater resilience, authentic leadership, and personal growth. Drawing on her frontline experience and clinical expertise, Dr. Felisa helps teams and individuals become their best, most authentic selves, ensuring they can thrive in demanding environments, transcend challenges, and serve their communities at the highest level. Dr. Felis, welcome to Respond Resilience.

SPEAKER_07 3:39

Thank you. Thank you, David. I'm excited to be here. Hey Bonnie and Stacey, how are you?

Bonnie Rumilly 3:44

All right, doing well. It's nice to meet you. You too.

SPEAKER_07 3:48

I'm really excited to be here.

Bonnie Rumilly 3:50

Sorry, y'all. We are too.

SPEAKER_07 3:56

So, David, as you said, I I am 27 years into the uh law enforcement field, and I want to just speak from my experience. I entered very young, 24, 25, somewhere in there, and had no idea what law enforcement meant, had no interaction prior to becoming a police officer, had no interaction with law enforcement or you know what it entailed. I did it out of a need. I had just become a mother at the same time. Within the first six months of doing this, I had become a mother. So my goal was to take care of my daughter. And so I dove into uh a profession that created a culture shock for me. Me not understanding who I am, who I was at that time, and going into a profession that I wasn't aware of at that time caused me to want to focus more on developing something that would support law enforcement, people first responders, or anybody who works with other people. So from there, I'll go into what vicarious trauma is if if you need if you want right now. Um so vicarious trauma, and I found out the hard way. It hit me first, it hit me hard, it almost took me out, and that's what caused me to want to study it. Vicarious trauma is the indirect trauma that we absorb as people, as individuals. It has nothing to do with anything else. It's the fact that we care, it's the fact that we have compassion and empathy for other people. So, what makes it harder is those of us who care more. And normally, those of us who those of us who care more go into professions where we help other people. So it's an invisible vapor that we absorb. And the problem comes when we're because we're not aware of it. We think it's part of the normal normalcy, which in essence it's really not. So that takes me back to addressing uh the four domains. So, what I've established is we're talking we're talking about human beings helping human beings. The four domains cover the whole the whole human being, physically, emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually will cover the whole domain. So if you take good care of your whole self, you are preparing yourself for whatever you need to encounter or whatever you will encounter with another human being to counteract that invisible vapor. You remember uh um Wonder Woman with her uh her braces, right? Back in the day, you guys were standing around doing my giving my age up so but yeah. So we're blocking those vapors when we take care of our whole selves, and that's where you know that comes into play, Stacy.

SPEAKER_06 7:00

Hopefully I answered your question. And you said human to human, but I I've witnessed um like you know, we've had a dog that was elderly and suffering and had to put down or whatever. I I I think I was really hit by that dog's absolutely we can we can be vicariously traumatized, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:23

Yeah, and and I think if I could speak on this, I think it's worse now as we are all so um interested in what's happening in our country when uh when rules are being made and things are happening and it's becoming traumatizing from the top to the bottom because of what's happening around us in our environments. And so you couple that with your individual story, yourself, you you couple that with the people you work with, or the people you encounter on social media as you scroll, or in the grocery store, or so it's like a big vapor over us, you know.

Bonnie Rumilly 8:09

Well, and Stacy and I talk about this sometimes too. The there's no shortage of mass disaster, whether it's man-made or natural, and that's something that our population faces all the time, right? But even just the culture and country at large is facing more and more trauma, um, whether they're attending school or work or church. So, you know, we're dealing with all of that in addition. What are some specific strategies that law enforcement officers and other first responders could incorporate into their daily routine, in your view, to start beefing up their own support of their domain?

SPEAKER_07 8:49

So uh I believe the first thing initially is to be aware, become self-aware, take the necessary steps to do the introspective work to understand where you are and how you're impacted, if you're impacted, what ways you're impacted. So, what I'm saying is start with self and start to create routines for yourself that support all four domains. And obviously, the the normal stuff, getting enough rest, eating clean, um, just doing the things that are necessary to take care of you. I can give you suggestions, but we we need to find out what helps us, what helps us as individuals, what feeds your soul, what feeds your spirit. That's what you get to do as part of your psychological you get out there and do some physical work because that's what moves the trauma. That's what moves out the trauma is moved out of you. Unless if you don't do those things, it stays within you and it helps.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

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Voiceover 10:20

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SPEAKER_07 11:16

So, like I mentioned earlier, vicarious trauma almost took me out. And what I noticed is it was at the most inopportune time. I was doing my internship and still working my shift and still raising two girls. I'm still I'm married, I'm still trying to do the normal stuff. And I didn't realize that I had become overwhelmed because me, I'm pushing through, right? I'm just doing what I need to do. And I was in roll call. I'm gonna give you a little backstory. I was in roll call, and I'm I work with these officers, right? But the incident occurred in that room from one word somebody said to me, and it just like it's I exploded. But I when I look back on it, I I saw it happening, but I didn't pay attention to it. You get what I'm saying? I saw the irritability, I saw the lack of sleep, I saw the not eating well, I saw the irritability, I saw the snap area, I saw those things when I looked back on it. So what brought me to do this work is let's get ahead of this thing.

SPEAKER_06 12:26

Sure.

SPEAKER_07 12:27

Let's get ahead of it because when I think about um the high profile cases that we, you know, often see when police officers do bad things or make bad choices, um, they didn't go into it to make those choices. And so I look at it from a different lens. I look at it from I wonder if they were taking good care of themselves. And so then I look at the patterns. How did this get here? You know, and so this is like the the the bottom, this is the layer on the bottom, which is us as individuals. How are we showing up in the world, right? Don't let me go off tangent now because I feel like it's all good, it's all good. But as we show up as individuals, we have to take good care of ourselves because we're going into a space where we don't know what we may encounter, right? So the best possible way to remedy anything that we may encounter is to make sure we are good in good possible shape ourselves, and that's with any.

Voiceover 13:30

Yeah, I mean, life is uncertain, but doing a first responder job takes that uncertainty to another level, right? And and like we train to be prepared for whatever scenario we can walk into. We do our best to be prepared training-wise, but uh sounds like you're saying we also need to be prepared on a spiritual level, an emotional level, physical level, psychological, yeah, psychological, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 13:53

That's so that's that's gonna cover your whole self. So what and then there are other things that you get to learn that will, you know, enhance those areas, like skill sets that you will incorporate to you know handle yourself better regardless of what you're you're gonna encounter, because you just don't know.

SPEAKER_06 14:13

So, Dr. Felisa, um Bonnie and I, we've talked about this a lot. Um, we've encountered this in first responders where they they tend to come from families where um perhaps they didn't have uh a lot of their needs met. You know, maybe there was an absent parent, a divorce situation, an alcoholic parent, physical abuse, maybe some uh psychological abuse. Um, and so what we found is that these first responders don't tend to put themselves first or go inside. They're they're constantly responding and fixing, you know, responding to and fixing things on the outside. So I'd like to hear what you have to say about that. About how how do we get these first responders to be more focused on their four down four domains?

SPEAKER_07 15:03

So it's gonna start with leadership, incorporating, you know, um certain ways of being. It's it's gonna be creating a different culture and turning it into something that's it has never been before. And that's with people telling them or telling us to start with us, like this, what we're doing, bringing awareness to this, start with yourself, you know, and it's gonna start with, especially with people who are going into a profession which is uh, in my opinion, a paramilitary profession. So we're looking for people to tell us what to do. So the leadership is gonna need to tell people what to do, take care of yourself first. When I instructed in the academy, my first question to my students on the very first day was why are you here? What do you want to do? Why are you here? And I didn't I didn't accept the generic response I want to help, I want to protect. Because as soon as somebody spit on you or punch you in the throat or whatever, you're not gonna want to protect and serve. So I need to know deeper. So that's the thing I think is necessary for us to go deeper in the early stages when we bring people into these professions, help them to understand this is gonna change you as a person. It's inevitable, it's going to change you. So that's where I would start is at the onset when we onboard people, bring them in, let them know this is going to happen. We don't know to what degree you're going to be impacted, but when you work with other people, it's inevitable you will be impacted in some way. And that's where the that's the the part right there is you just don't know how you're going to be impacted. Some people it doesn't happen until afterwards, after they after they leave the profession. Then you might recognize, oh my goodness. You know.

Bonnie Rumilly 17:03

I wanted to ask you because we have clinicians tuning in who are working with first responders or looking for tools and strategies to work with them, and we have some first responders listening to figure out what they need to do for themselves. What are some of the early warning signs that you could identify that someone is at the beginning of experiencing vicarious trauma? What are some of those red flags that really stick up in the beginning?

SPEAKER_07 17:32

I would say one would need to really understand who they are as an individual first because it could be their norm, right? But if you're starting to feel uh irritability and you can't put your finger on it, or if you're tossing and turning at night and you just cannot, you know, figure out how to get some good rest, or you're feeling depleted, or you're feeling overwhelmed, or you're feeling a disconnection from your family and friends, or you don't want to hang out, when you start to feel and do those things, you want to really take a look at, you know, am I taking good care of myself? And start to really incorporate some things that are feeling you up, opposed to depleting you or taking from you.

Voiceover 18:16

We sometimes experience this because we we go out, we want to help people like we are typically empathetic and people that are compassionate. We want to be compassionate when someone's in need. And then we can kind of get to that point of burnout and compassion fatigue where we're doing it day in, day out, shift in, shift out. Um, how do we kind of find that balance, right? How do we balance our own well-being with the fact that the job requires being empathetic and supportive and compassionate in a lot of circumstances?

SPEAKER_07 18:47

And it goes back to self, being self-aware and understanding you and your capacity to withstand. But it's putting those boundaries in place and practicing those boundaries, understanding that it's you first. You can't help somebody else if you're not good for yourself, right? You know, and so that's the thing. It always goes back to self-awareness, and just back to self-awareness and self-discovery. Prior to that, is let's go back to the foundation and rebuild to support whatever it is that you're up to me. And that's what Dr. Um Stacy was talking about. Um a lot of folks that go into these areas may have come from a lack of themselves. So with that being said, it's doubly important for you to take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_08 19:42

Right.

Bonnie Rumilly 19:44

Right. I think I think part of that is those responders as children were not given permission to care for themselves or to even explore what self is. You know, when you're in a toxic, toxic Violent dysfunctional family system, you're surviving it on the day-to-day, right? So to get to Maslow's hierarchy of needs of how do I self-actualize? Whereas you're worrying if someone's coming home drunk or what noise you're going to hear, um, you know, is that a realistic expectation? Probably not. But to your point about speaking to academies and leadership, we need to do a better job of educating first responders as to what they're about to walk into. Because what you walk into, it's not just the danger aspect, but you're walking into a mirror. And if you are not ready to look in that mirror, it's gonna shatter at some point.

SPEAKER_07 20:40

You're triggered, you're triggered. You may be able to maintain your composure in that moment. Sure, but it's still there, it's gonna be with you. You're gonna walk away from that call, that that service, or whatever you're doing, you're gonna walk away with that experience. Sure. You gotta be able to separate and compartmentalize. I mean, it's a lot more than just being in a position to serve other people because again, it goes back to you first. That's my motto. You first, you first because think about it, and I don't I don't care what culture you come from, what background. Usually, when we come into this world that's already here, we're taught to take care of other people. We're taught by giving getting a baby doll or a uh uh teddy bear or kitchen set or an iron board or you get what I'm saying? We've been taught, we've been conditioned to take care of other people until we're in crisis, then we look at ourselves, but it's too late at that point. We don't want to go into crisis, right? We don't want to be in a situation where we're on somebody's back trying to uh apprehend them in the worst way. We don't want to wait till we get to that point. You get what I'm saying? I'm gonna tell you something. I did 27 years, fortunately for me, I never had to have a physical confrontation with anybody on the street, and that's why I said we can go back to the part where I was in the roll call room when that incident occurred. The best thing that could have happened to me. It was bad, but it was good in the same respect because it could have been out on the street with cameras, yeah, and it could have been worldwide news because I was in crisis, sure, right? Yeah, that's more corrupt, we get to interrupt that kind of stuff, yes, before they get us. Get us, you gotta take care of yourself first, and again, I don't I don't know how to reiterate this any louder than being in it and on platforms like this, but to tell people to take care of themselves first, even us mothers, wives, whatever, we get to take care of ourselves first. And it's so difficult for us because we're nurturers, you know. We want to help, we want to serve. And some of us even know that we're here on this planet to serve other people. But with that being said, we must serve ourselves first.

SPEAKER_06 23:18

Right, right. You have to, you know, if you are a very busy uh tea kettle filling all of these teacups, but then you run out, you're empty, then you can't, you're no good for anybody else. You can't fill all the teacups around you because the kettle itself is empty.

SPEAKER_05 23:36

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unknown 24:40

Dr.

SPEAKER_06 24:41

Felisa, I can you just outline some practical steps? Like, what do you recommend for building resilience in each of the four domains?

SPEAKER_07 24:52

So for I'm gonna give you an example for me. I set up rituals for myself, which include I listen to a book when I'm in the shower. And I do that because it's a it beh it has become a practice, which is has become a need, which helps me to think in the shower. I don't know if you ever know noticed about how you get clarity in the shower. Yeah. But yeah, um, uh that's one thing I do. Um, I have certain rituals that I do. I work out. Um, I listen, I don't go to church physically, but I I do I'm spiritual, so I feel myself spiritually with various things. Okay, go into nature, um, just being aware. What do you need, understanding what is needed, what do you enjoy, what what brings you joy, what brings you pleasure. You know, as a coach, I have noticed that a lot of people don't know what brings them pleasure, what brings them joy. So it's a part it's really a matter of just doing some internal work, taking yourself back to the foundation and figure out what it is that you need, not what somebody told you you needed, or or uh what mom or dad or sister, whomever, it doesn't matter what other people said to you. You get to figure out what it is that you need and make that happen. My my one of my one of my um I have a big old sign that I put up in my trainings. How do you want to show up in the world? What impact do you want to leave in the world? And for you ever for you to be able to do that, what do you need to do that within yourself? Because everything is there already. So, what is it that you need to enhance to do that? How do you want to show up? So, I don't know if that answered your question, Dr. Stacy, but yeah, those are all great suggestions. Yeah, it's all very much what the individual needs. That's another place that I've found that people struggle is understanding who they are, believe it or not, and what they need. Those are two very important questions. And once you get to those two questions, you can answer those two questions. The third one is why who are you? Why? What do you mean? Why? And that's a start right there. That's a start, and that's gonna take people back to the foundation, which may bring up some fragmented disowned wounded orphaned parts inside of them, but that's where the work begins, and that work is necessary when you work with other people because we never know when it's gonna come up, right? Right, yeah.

Bonnie Rumilly 27:48

Well, there's a dual process going on here because we're talking about the vicarious trauma that our law enforcement and first responders take on, and then there is the vicarious trauma that therapists, coaches, helpers take on as well. Um, so this is a dual purpose here, which is great. It's it's always good to call attention to it uh because I don't think there's a person in the world that couldn't do a little bit better on self-care and beefing up their resilience and their coping skills. Just to switch gears a little, you did mention coaching. Can you talk about what coaching is and then how it supplements therapy?

SPEAKER_07 28:23

So for I chose coaching purposely. Uh, although I'm trained and and I'm fully trained in therapy. I can do therapy. I'm not licensed, but I'm trained in it. And the reason I wanted to coach is people pretty much know what they need, what they want, pretty much. I just want to guide people. So that's the difference for me. I want to guide you where you are, I want to meet you where you are and guide you. I can touch on the trauma, but we're not gonna stay there. We're gonna we're gonna revisit that trauma, reframe it, and move on. If that makes a difference. That's the difference for me in coaching. So I'm trying to help you to win. I'm helping you to recognize your strengths, help you to recognize where your um where your challenges are, but we're gonna focus on those strengths. We're gonna work on those challenges, but we're gonna focus on your strengths and support you holistically from that perspective. For me, that's what coaching is.

Voiceover 29:27

Let's kind of take it to the next step, which is um in addition to the one-on-one coaching, you do trainings for um, I imagine for agencies and different uh departments. Can you talk a little bit about that? What are some of the things that you bring out there? What are the topics and um in the subject matter that you train with?

SPEAKER_07 29:46

So I have three pillars that I focus on specifically, and then I build the training around those three pillars for organizations who work with people who have experience or you know, trauma. It's different sectors: healthcare, judicial system, uh, law enforcement or first responders, teachers, educators, paraprofessionals, anybody who are positioned to support other people. So my three pillars are self-love and self-care, which falls under self-discovery, and with that would include anything self, if that makes sense. Anything self, self-respect, self-everything, right? Then I have emotional wellness, which is emotional intelligence. So I teach people how the basics of emotional intelligence and how to do that. And the third one is effective communication, support people in understanding how and and how to communicate effectively and what effective communication looks like. So those are the three pillars that I work on. And then I build if they are having issues where they want to uh beef up attendance or if they're having issues with um uh let's see uh conflict resolution or um management or anything that has to do with whatever they're trained on. I'll incorporate that around those three pillars coming from a place of education. I want to educate people on these areas.

Voiceover 31:22

Do you train leadership and rank and file together, or are they kind of separate tracks?

SPEAKER_07 31:27

It's whatever the organization wants.

SPEAKER_08 31:29

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

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SPEAKER_06 32:33

So you had mentioned the importance of leaders, kind of like this being a top-down uh way of changing uh culture to have the culture uh be more focused on themselves. How do you envision that? Like how do you create uh how do leaders create an environment um that fosters that? Can you articulate some points there?

SPEAKER_07 32:58

I believe that it's important to, like you just said, articulate the need and the necessity of taking care of yourself because the bottom line depends on the people who are showing up to do the work. So we have to educate, we have to practice those. Um we practice those things that we want other people to do. We talk about self-care, we talk about vicarious trauma, we talk about what happens if we don't do these things. We bring it to the awareness of the people that are doing the work. Um I think that's the first and foremost, most important thing, and then to allow people to do what they need to do to take care of themselves. Again, talking about from a place of from leadership, from the viewpoint of leadership.

Bonnie Rumilly 33:51

I think one of the most challenging situations, and we come across it at times, is when leadership uh does not want to open this door because they are not doing that work on themselves.

SPEAKER_08 34:04

Right.

Bonnie Rumilly 34:04

Um, you know, and you have people underneath who want the information, want the support, want the programs, um, and it's not going to happen necessarily unless there are mandates coming down from the state or other entities, right? Um, so that's a huge challenge. Do you have any thoughts about that one?

SPEAKER_07 34:23

Well, I think um I go to the the department heads, and and again, I'm I haven't reached the level where um they're readily opening the door the doors, like you just said, they're not really conversations with people and it's happening because we've been talking to Carrie's trauma for a long time. Sure. And so it's starting to get you know, certain ears are starting to perk up. And so I think that's the most important thing right now is that people are listening, and and from the leadership listening, if we can get individuals to start to talk about how they become better people, right? Right, it just it's just the word is spread, just like everything else. I find that magic wand, and I could just swing my wand and have people understand the importance of it. But you know, what we can do is continue to share and bring awareness to it.

SPEAKER_06 35:20

Right. I think it's it's so powerful when you have uh a first responder who whose life was a mess, you know, post-traumatic stress, injury, divorce, alcoholism, perhaps even disciplinary issues at work. And then they they become involved in therapy, they they you know, resign themselves to it, they embrace it, they grow from it, and now they're a new person, and they are the poster child, you know, for their department. And it it influences other people to look at, well, wow, if he could do it, I mean, or she could do it, you know, they were an absolute mess a year ago, and they've turned their lives around. I think that is one of the most influential um factors in in helping people have a better focus on, you know, the the totality of themselves.

SPEAKER_07 36:16

Yeah. I think that's important to have people that we can look to to see that it it's evidence, it works, right? But that's again where I go back to the part where we have to be individuals first. And like you said, we can see other people do it. We can hope leadership will bring in the tools and uh and the people to share this information, but the ultimate responsibility lies on our us as individuals because again, we're on our own journey soon. And um I hope to interrupt the person that is in crisis that is going to show up to be the poster child. I want to interrupt that before you know.

Voiceover 36:59

So, Dr. Felisa, share with us please where people can find you website, social media, any other points of contact.

SPEAKER_07 37:08

I am on all platforms under Peacock uh Training and Consulting Group, Peacock Training Consulting.gmail.com is my um email address. And uh let's see. You could type in my name in Google, it'll all come up.

Voiceover 37:28

Okay. Yeah, we'll put that all on the screen. Stacey Bonnie, final thoughts.

Bonnie Rumilly 37:37

I really appreciate you coming on today and sharing a little bit more about vicarious trauma. We've talked about it here and there, but it was nice to have someone who really focuses on it every day. So thank you for what you're doing, and I hope that you have continued success and get more presentations and more engagements because the message needs to get out. Thank you, Plenty. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_06 38:00

Dr. Felisa, I I really appreciate you know, the you know, the spotlight on the individual and that they, you know, they go inward and they monitor themselves because as we know, first responders are so much externally oriented, they're focused on helping others, putting out, you know, putting out the fire, chasing the bad guy, um, stopping the bleeding, whatever the case may be. Yeah, I think it's very hard for them to focus internally. So the more that they hear that, um, it's it's definitely gonna make a change.

SPEAKER_07 38:33

Yeah. Thank you for allowing me to get this out. Um, and just this is awesome because, like you guys said, this is so necessary, and we may be saving lives here, just a simple podcast to say stop and take a look at what's happening with yourself. I may say it stops, and I mean, we don't set out to hurt other people, that's not the goal. So when we start seeing other people being hurt, we gotta interrupt that and figure out what it is, and take a look at ourselves.

Voiceover 39:13

Right, and I appreciate that you're planting the seeds uh for you have been planting the seeds at the academy level, because um that's really where it's got to start, that awareness. And uh, so that's fantastic. And our conversations reminded me of something we heard along one of our podcasts, and that's you know, people that are in radiation environments or even firefighters when they're going into toxic environments, we we wear a badge or a detector that's gonna monitor and let us know if we've gotten too much exposure, right, to a toxic environment or to radiation. Wouldn't it be great if we had something like that that could monitor our exposure to vicarious trauma and other traumas, right? And know that it's time to it's time to do something about it.

SPEAKER_07 39:57

But we do have we have an interesting. We do have an internal monitoring system. We just get to tap into it. We get to tap into it. Listen, I don't know what else to say other than let's keep this going. The momentum. I'm open to going and talking and bringing awareness to this. And then we all need money, but it's not about money for me. It's I need to bring this out into the world. It's people like myself in the black community who are seeing the trauma more and more and more because of the totality of what's going on in our country. And so we have first responders or other people in the helping sectors going into or engaging with people in the in certain communities. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. I'm trying to keep it cute. I'm really trying to keep it cute, but I'm so the messaging is clear. We have to take care of ourselves, understanding who you are. Me being a black woman, I need to know the everything that goes comes along with being a black woman. I have to understand that and take good care of myself in order to be able to help other people.

Voiceover 41:43

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you for spending this time with us, Dr. Felisa. Um, it was great putting a spotlight onto these areas that you're an expert in. And we wish you continued success with all the work you're doing.

SPEAKER_07 41:55

Thank you so, so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yes. Call me if you need me.

Voiceover 42:02

Okay, we'll do. Remember to like and subscribe, YouTube, respond to resilience, Facebook, respond to wellness inc and responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and please check out our website, respondertv.com, for past episodes of guest information. Till the next time, stay safe. Be kind to yourself. Take care, we'll be shooting.