Building The Bulletproof Mind with Lt. Col. Dave Grossman | S5 E13

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Love is what makes a great first responder. Empathy is love with your shoes on. Empathy is love in action. I've got a phrase, I really coined it. Walk slow, die fast. Sleep deprivation is a major component in suicide. One major study said not only is sleep a major component, it's the most remediable factor. The only thing university can control is how you choose to respond. Or you can live your life in denial and be the sheep, or you can accept the reality and be the sheep doctor protected. But in the end, how do we defeat evil for love? And it's love for our fellow man, love for our family, love for our God, love for our nation. Those are the things that motivate us, and they're the most powerful force on the planet.

Voiceover 0:45

Welcome to Responder Resilience, along with Bonnie Rimoli, LCSW EMT, and Dr. Stacey Raymond. I'm David Dashinger. Today's episode, we're going to be speaking with Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman. He's a former Army Ranger, an expert on the psychology of combat and resilience. Known for his insights on mental toughness and trauma in high stress situations. He helps first responders and military personnel navigate the challenges they face. From survivor guilt to the impact of sleep on decision making, and that's a huge one. This conversation is sure to be enlightening and impactful. We invite you to like and subscribe, YouTube, Responder Resilience, Facebook, Responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcast Spotify, and go to our website responderTV.com for past episodes to guest information. This episode is made possible by the First Responder Center for Excellence. Discover more at FirstresponderCenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. Our resource partner Fight Camp is offering an exclusive deal for viewers of responder resilience. For a limited time, you can get an amazing free package valued at $238, which includes punch crackers, quick wraps, and a free 45-day membership trial. Don't miss out. Email us at inforesponderTV.com with the subject line Fight Camp to claim your free package today. We'll be right back to speak with Lieutenant Colonel Grossman right after this. In this family, more of us die by our own hands and by the hazards of the job.

SPEAKER_05 2:14

In this family, up to a quarter of 911 telecommunicators have symptoms of post-traumatic stress. In this family, our mental health and wellness are in high school, while responders are quietly suffering.

SPEAKER_06 2:26

In this family, many struggle with job-related stress.

Voiceover 2:35

In this family, we have to help. Welcome to Responding Resilience. We co-host retired Lieutenant David Dashinger, Dr. Stacey Raymond, and Bonnie Emily, LCSW EMTV. So we're pleased to introduce a true patriot, a well-respected author, public speaker, and trainer who's a former U.S. Army Ranger, a paratrooper, and West Point psychology professor. He's got a black belt in Ojitsu, the martial art of the firearm, and he's been inducted into the USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame. For the last 25 plus years, Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman has been a leading voice for military and law enforcement men and women across this country. And he shared his bulletproof mind presentation, which provides tools to enable mental resiliency. Today, Colonel Grossman is the director of Grossman on Truth, LLC, and he's written for many leading law enforcement journals. He's been inducted as a life diplomat by the American Board of Certification in Homeland Security, and he's a life member of the American College of Forensic Examiners Institute. Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, warm welcome to respond to resilience.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Thank you, David. Well, the guys you talk about needs to go get a life. It's been a great ride. I'm 68 years old. I've been on the road for the last 26 odd years, and my parents do it for another 20 years. And we didn't talk right now why that is. Why do we stay in the fight? I'm 68, still at the top of my game, and uh I want to stay in the fight. And I I start all my presentations with the Pledge of Allegiance. And then I asked them, what were the last three words you just said? Justice for all. Justice for all. And I said, that's why we're here. That's what every one of us represents. Your society says we don't want you to die in a fire. We don't want you to die from a heart attack. We don't want you to die from this this attacker. That's justice for all. That's who we are, that's what we do. And uh and they're they're they're receptive to that. The first step in resiliency, as I teach it, is motivation to know that your sacrifice is for a noble and worthy purpose. And when you you start the first responder business, you've accepted a life of sacrifice. You're never gonna be filthy, stinking American dream rich as a first responder, at least not legally. You're never gonna be a famous celebrity as a responder, at least not in a good way. You have chosen a life of sacrifice, and you must believe your sacrifice for a noble worthy purpose. And folks, it's bad out there. It's crazy bad. Um, medical technology is holding down the murder rate. You and the good people you've done and trying, they're saving lives every day. That a decade or 20 years ago would not have been saved. So when you save the life of a murder victim, you've you prevented a murder. So year after year, we have the murder rate. Oh look, the murder rate's down tonight. But it's a lie. Because we don't offer medical technology. I was invited to the White House uh as part of President Trump's round table on violent video games, invited back to brief the vice president. And I'm trying to explain to him that just like we have inflation-adjusted dollars, we need medically adjusted murders. And when you do that, you will understand how desperately bad it is. And so, just up front, just laying the foundation ideas is why do we stay in the fight? Why would anybody want to do this job? Everything you do is on recorded, you're sleep-deprived, you're under attack, you you face human aggression. Why would anybody want to do this? And I tell the only thing I can tell you is why I stay in the fight. 68 years old and uh and waiting at home for me is my bride of 49 years, high school sweeter. Uh, this allowed me 50 years. She was uh she was 15. I was 17 when I proposed to her. We are from Arkansas, yeah. And uh two years later, she married a crazy army paratrooper. Business ride with me for four for 49 years. I love her more than life itself. I come home one or two nights a week, conical visit, clean underwear, back in the road. The only people more precious my bride are children, our grandchildren. I have a grandson in the army deployed to Kuwait right now, and the blip and I will be great-grandparents. And we believe if you love your children, if you love your nation, if you love your God, if you love people, that means love means the worse you get, the harder you fight. And and and I I draw up on the on the board, I say, what's the opposite of evil? And the opposite of evil is love. Evil's absence of love, just as darkness, absence of light. And we're called to love. And and I we talk about it ahead of time, you know what Jesus said, greater love is known than this. That they lay down their life for their friends. So, what manner of love is this that these first responders go out every day, willingly place their life on the line for people they never even met. But listen to that verse one more time. Greater love is known than this. That they lay down the life for their friends. But there are many ways to lay down your life. Can't help you. You're your spouse, right? Quit the job, you have the sick kid full. That's what love means. And and and love is what makes a great first responder. Empathy, empathy is love with the shoes on, empathy is love in action. And the responder says, What about my family crapped in that burning building? What if my father lay in there needing CPR? What it was, what if it was it was my mother who who'd been assaulted and murdered? And that's empathy. And empathy is love with the shoes on, and in these dark hours, it's uh that's really what motivates us and keeps us. And the ones that are here now are the best of the best. Recruiting is down, retention is down, that in the darkest hour they they they rose to the occasion. And so it's an honor, it's kind of long-winded to be here, be a service to you and uh and the wonderful women who serve us, and and thank you for what you've done across these years.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

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Voiceover 9:26

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SPEAKER_03 10:34

We don't want uh my uh life is my workout. You know, you can choose to go up the stars one at a time or two at a time. You can choose to walk fast or choose to walk slow, you can choose to talk sad or talk loud. You know, it's a choice. And uh and I I choose to live life with vigor and energy. Life's my workout. Uh I've got a phrase, I really coined it, but uh uh walk slow, die fast. You know, I did an online search for that. Four words. Who thought that four word of you know, word salad could never have been used before? Walk slow, die fast. But uh it was not anywhere. But the AI, this is kind of scary. The AI on Google Search pulled up the research. It showed walking speed is a predictor of life expectancy. Walking speed is an indicator of wellness. I didn't make that decision, you know. So life's my work out. Uh they're pretty good at supplements. I got a great doc. Uh I think there's awesome research on uh metformin. And uh I've been doing that for 20 years and and uh almost 20 years, and it's really helped a lot. I think it's good. The New York Times had a big article about the uh the Wall Street Journal had a big article about metformin and how these people are volunteering to be part of this test. I do 100 push-ups a day, and I'm 75 years old, and and I'll be good on your test, you know. Just find a doctor'll prescribe it for you. You know, when people say, why is that weight control? And uh, but the data is overwhelming on that. And so there are quite a few supplements out there that we can tap into. But it really it's for me wraps around my faith, and uh and and you know that the faith in question is really powerful. So I it's a foundation I've tried to cover in the first 15 minutes. So uh every responder has got to ask the same question. Your job is to go to the most horrible thing that happens every day, just choose the worst thing out there, and it's your job to go there every day. And you cannot help but ask how could a loving God allow these terrible things to happen? That's a really, really important question. We we got to answer that question, one of the most important things of all. When I tell them this is not about, you know, not about religion. I've got uh I've got three books. I've got On Spiritual Combat, which is really custom lives, a sequel uh on spiritual warfare. You know, we've uh we've got bulletproof marriage, uh, we're writing a Christian book award finalist, co-author writing a book right now in the bulletproof family. But uh this is not about religion, it's an existential question. Every human being asks. How could a loving God allow these terrible things to happen? And the answer is really, really important. It's the foundation of wellness. We are not every faith would tell you we are not God's puppets. A loving father wouldn't hang over you every minute of every day, protecting you from every bad thing that happens. In the end, we're all gonna die physically. Does that mean God failed? No. And and the the answer is very simple. God loves us enough to let us make our own decisions. You've heard the phrase if you love something, let it go, if come back for two years. That's how much God loves us. He loves us enough to let us make our own decision, and that means a lot of people make really bad decisions. And you say, God wanted to do something. He said, I did. I sent you. And it's so important to understand that. That we're not God's puppets. If you love something, let it go if it comes back at yours. That's how much God loves us. And so faith is one of the pillars of resiliency around the world, every every nation, every every group that deals with resiliency, we use faith in as part of that component, and uh and so I get up every morning and have a dose of vitamin J, Jesus, and uh roll on.

SPEAKER_05 14:26

I love it. I've never heard that before. Sir, I want to ask you a question then about faith. You know, if you look at um the uh the switch uh that the public has made toward um not supporting police, you know, defunding police, especially since like the George Floyd murder. And now you have, you know, it's very hard to recruit good police officers, you know, and you speak about faith and and you know, realizing that it's out of love that you're you know going into uh do your line of duty and look at the suicide rate, you know, among police, right? I mean, last year was the first year since uh 2016 that line of duty deaths for police outnumbered suicides finally last year, 2024. Can you speak to how do those that are called to become police officers in this milieu that they're facing, how do they step up? How do they feel good about their work?

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Yeah. Well, what I try to do is first lay that foundation, justice for all. That's why we're here, is what we do. And the opposite of evil is love. And uh how do we fight violence? How do we fight crime with love, uh, empathy, and and and the fact that God lets people pick their own decisions, bad things happen. But the the next step in resiliency is to uh is to provide a leadership foundation for what they do. It's really existential, it's almost like religious. But uh uh it was called the the uh FBI called it the Ferguson effect. And uh on the two years during and following the Ferguson incident, we had uh right around a 12-13 percent increase in homicides both years. It's 12%, 12% stacked on top of that. And and it's straightforward the Ferguson effect, the way that the media portrayed law enforcement, the leadership that was willing to condemn uh our our first and throw and throw throw our first responders under the bus. And uh and then everything changed. With the last one, recruiting is down, retention is down, but January was the best recruiting month the US Army's had in 15 years. And uh and and January had the least number of cops murdered in the line of duty in in over 10 years. Now remember, the number of dead cops is not overall represented in the problem because medical technology holding it down, body arm holds it down. The number of dead cops completely underrips the situation. But we worst of all, in 2020, I I usually put a chart up on the wall, it's pretty important. Uh, in in 2020, uh we've never seen more than a 12-13% annual increase in homicides. And then we had two years of the Ferguson effect, in spite of medical technology. But then 2020, homicides jumped 20% in one year. We've never seen a remotely like it. It's worse than 9-11. You know, one of the graphs shows a it's a few report on the and it shows 9-11, big spike comes down the next year. But 2020, a bigger spike, bigger than 9-11, and then went up another 4% the next year. It's trickled down since then. But I I was in the army when Ronald Reagan became president, and the army was broken. Uh, I mean, if if if you lived in the barracks and didn't want to do drugs, you had to fight, and uh the druggies ran the barracks, and we couldn't get rid of bad apples, uh uh, and we were told that you're an instrument of social mobility, and these people have been socially deprived, and uh, and it's your job to fix them. You don't get to kick them out of the army. And and then Ronald Reagan became president. Your analysis program, expeditious discharge, and the greatest influx of people enlisting that we have seen uh in decades. Uh really, you go back too far, you're back in the draft era, so we don't really have anything to compare it to. So the Ronald Reagan effect was one of the most stunning things we've ever seen, whether you support the man or not. Uh enlistments exploded, uh people called to duty to their nation exploded. And I uh I work with uh our nation's largest fire department on a pretty steady basis, and they tell me in the last couple of months, uh it's like it's just like we've turned a page, we're headed in a different direction. And it it's this idea that uh the criminals are the good guys and cops are the bad guys. Life to like the theory is life splits up into two parts, the oppressor and the oppressed. Now that that has value, but it can't be taken too far because the message they're given now is the first responder is their oppressor, and that's the oppressed. And the oppressor is always the good guy, and the oppressor, the oppressor is always the bad guy, and the oppressor deserves anything they get. And and and and the oppressed is always a good guy, and the oppressed can do anything they want to, and so that that narrative, uh, with such a twisted narrative. I think we've turned the corner on that. Uh the the image of George Floyd uh being pinned down, terrible, terrible, tragic, vile event uh on the news day after day, night after night. The nation saw that, and we bought into that, and then New York Times, yeah. New York Times uh printed a uh a chart that showed what happened in 2020, was far and away the same. Worst, not even allowed for medical technology, the single worst annual increase homicides we ever did. And then gotta give them credit. They publish it, they put it in Sunday supplement and never mentioned it again. And because it wants a bigger rep back of them. This twisted narrative that the criminal is the good guy and the responder is the bad guy. And again, we can't escape the uh racial issue. Yeah, we we've made progress on that, and we've got a lot of ways to go. Uh but I just I tell you that I've seen so much turn around in just the last couple of months. Uh I'm uh people nationwide tell me recruiting is up, tension is up, military recruiting is the best we've seen in decades, and uh and and good things are happening all around us. So there's an upside and a downside to everything.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

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SPEAKER_03 21:50

Every model has to be taken carefully. But the other model is the idea that we don't want warriors. We need guardians. You know, we talk about you know we talk about medical frontline warriors, we talk about you know firefighter frontline warriors. But God forbid the cops had ever embraced that model of warriors. They're protectors. They've been told that you're not a warrior, you're you're a protector. And then I throw up the picture of the school resource officer, yeah, and the the the the the the the uh uh Parkland school massacre in Florida in in prisoner orange, uh uh being being pressed with a dozen felonies because he sat outside, he was a warrior. His sheriff was a real left-wing guy, and he said, We we don't want warriors, you know, we we want we want helpful little guardians out there. He sat outside and guarded the guarded the door while where the worst high school massacre in American history took place. And then I showed him the photograph of the mayor and the school resource officer in Uvaldi in prison orange. And the mayor was just this gentle, roly-poly little guy. He'd been elected to the city council, he's just the epitome of the of the guardian and the fluffy friendly guy. And the school resource officer was totally bought into that same package, and they've been charged with over a dozen felonies for not going in in Uvaldi. And I told him, I think a jury in anywhere, any jury in in uh in Dex is gonna put them in prison because they didn't go in. But from one perspective, it's not their fault. They were told you don't have to take a bullet for a kid, you're not a soldier. It's not your job to go in that door and take a bullet for a kid. We don't want warriors, we need we need fluffy little guardians, you understand? And they then the mayor and the and the uh and the SRO, who will probably go to prison for multiple felonies, they were guardians and they sat outside the door while children died. And so it's it's so the model you prevent the leadership is so important. And the leadership model at the highest level that says uh you know that that the offender is a good guy, recruiting is down, retention is down. This model that you know, here's these two guys in prison or with stunned, stunned looks on the faces. Never in a million years they would be convicted of felonies for not going in. And so we've got to understand that the narrative can be terribly, terribly destructive. And we can't help but be a part of it. We're part of the culture. Uh uh responders, it's it's gonna get bad. What if nobody wants to do this? Yeah, there's hope because we've really seen it turn around in just the last couple of months. People across America are telling me, you know, at the national level, uh military recruiting is the best we've seen in decades. At the at the local level, major major pirate EMS are telling us that the numbers are up and people are responding. Uh it really, we saw the same thing after 9-11. Prior to 9-11. Recruiting, recruit prior to 9-11, the post uh uh uh uh prior to 9-11, we had to wave felonies to get people to be cops. They were waving felonies, get people that the portion remembered it to uh oh they couldn't get anybody to be cops, they were waving felonies, and then we had the uh the rampart scandal uh in LAPD, ramparts division, terribly terrible criminal behavior, and uh and executive summary, page one, number one, rampart scandal. We probably shouldn't have hired a cop with a felony record, you know. But the thing was before, and uh and and we came out the other end, it looks like we're coming out the other end again, and uh, and we should have faith in our way of life, and you know, Churchill said democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. It's the city's worst form, and it's all about balance. We need to be warriors, we need to be guardians. We need to understand that these people are oppressed and these people are the oppressors, and we understand all those. There's great room for all of that, but in the end, how do we defeat evil with love? Uh uh and and it's love for our fellow man, love for our family, love for our God, love for our nation. Those are the things that motivate us, and they're the most powerful force on the planet. And so, anyway, if that makes sense to you, uh that would be kind of my foundation response of how it's all fitting together for us.

SPEAKER_06 26:15

Right, right. Colonel, you're touching on a lot of many different complicated issues that do impact our first responders every day. And Stacy and I see it in our offices, just the stress um that they're carrying from all of these situations. And so I'm glad that you brought it up. It's really important for us to look at that. I wanted to segue a little bit into a presentation that you give, which is called Bulletproof Mind Resiliency. Can you talk a little bit about that presentation and what some of your main points are there?

SPEAKER_03 26:46

You know, the first step in resilience is motivation, the your sacrifice for noble and worthy purpose. How bad it is, how much people need what you have to give. And motivation is love. No more powerful horse on the planet. And then, second, we we roll into kind of uh uh the the little bit of the faith faith part of the equation. Uh, you know, uh uh a loving God allowed these terrible things to happen. No, we allowed these things to happen, and he's given us the choice to make the choice. We we cover the foundation of uh up front to to recognize uh how bad it is, and how that your sacrifice is for a noble and worthy purpose. We include the faith component fairly briefly, then we roll into uh uh understanding some of the background dynamics and our culture, uh the video games, the movies. You know, prior to prior to the uh 19 by early 1960s, Hollywood television movies, Hollywood operated by code. And the code said we know the stories we tell have an impact on our society, and we know we have a responsibility to tell stories that have a positive impact. A lot of the code could be said in three words crime doesn't pay. Criminals must not be depicted in a positive manner. Positive manner, yeah. Law enforcement must not be depicted in a negative manner, right? And and and they knew their stories had an impact in the early 1960s, they threw the code away. They said there's nothing wrong with saying cops are evil and criminals are good, and the dynamic completely changed. And they say our stories have no impact, no responsibility, and yet a 30-second commercial is worth vast amounts of money because it changes behavior. And so uh uh this dynamic of evil, you know, I've done one of the one of the worst movies ever done, I think, was Training Day with Denzel Washington. A universally beloved and respected black actor plays a corrupt, violent cop. And the thing to understand is when you're two, three, four, five, six years old, it's real. We've all had dreams in real life kind of jumbled up, you know. Well, kids, dreams in real life and television, movies, and video, they're all real. Yeah, and they process them like it really happened to them. Right, right. And they know they know cops are evil. Denzel's a bad cop, all cops are bad, Denzel's a bad cop. Yeah, and so this dynamic, how the video game empowers uh violence. My book on killing has been out for uh since 1995. Uh, we talked about how the military couldn't get people to pull the trigger, and how we we created simulators that made killing a condition response and to adults in a safeguard of discipline. We made killing a condition response. And well, by the way, the video games do the exact same thing for our kids. And so we talk a little bit about that dynamic of what's going on. We talk about the external threat, the terrorist attack, what's coming down the road. But then we we roll into the the sheepdog model, and uh and and the and and it's really I actually I actually hold the US government trademark for the term sheepdog as a pretender. It came out of my book uh on combat. By the way, uh uh on combat, great praise God, on combat, the it has been translated in six languages now. The Ukrainian translation last year won a book of the year award. And in May and June of last year, I was in Ukraine, friendly, 67 years old at the time. My 66-year-old wife sends me off to the war zone for supper vacation. Yeah, yeah, that was my supper vacation to bring Ukrainian troops across the nation. But we we we really talk about that sheepdog model here, and then we roll it into faith about sheepdogs under the authority of the great shepherds. And and the thing of it is that um we're not critters, we can be whatever we want to be. You know, wolves are not really bad and and and and they're part of this nature, and and not all dogs are good, and god's dogs can't always save the day, and and sheep are born that way, and that's all they're gonna be, but people are different, we get whatever we want to be, and we can choose to be the sheep. And here's a dynamic on that. I talk about uh about how we study people who do not get PTSD called post-traumatic growth. Yeah, and one great example is a man named Victor Trockel, who wrote a very important book uh on uh uh about his experience at a Nazi death camp, and he did not have PTSD. And it was just the epitome of human evil, people being murdered around human skeleton, malnourished, and he said, I realized the only thing the universe, those Nazi bastards couldn't control is how I choose to respond. The only thing the universe you can control is how you choose to respond. But you can live your life in denial and be the sheep, or you can accept the reality and be the sheepdog, the protector. And there is no ultimate sheepdog, no ultimate sheep, they're just people up and down that scale, and our message comes further up that scale. Denial kills us twice, denial kills us once physically because we don't have the tools, uh and we don't have the skills, and we died. Denial kills us twice psychologically, because even if you survive, you live the rest of your life in hell and the simple things you could and should have done. Preparation is the sheepdog, preparation saves you twice, preparation saves you once physically. You're you're triumphant, the training and skills were there, but preparation saves you twice psychologically because even if you failed, you did everything you could reasonably do, right? And you can live with yourself, and that model's a sheepdog, and it's just about coming further up that scale, stripping away denial on one end and embracing preparation on the other, and being the sheepdog. And the foundation is understanding the only thing the universe you can control is yourself, and and and if you give way to bitterness or cynicism or complacency or denial, that's the one thing you can control. And you give the world a victory with your own hand, and we will not give them that victory. Now, that's easy to say, it ain't so easy to do. We roll into how to do it, and and a positive expectation, a pity party and the macho man. Uh, you know, don't go out there saying I'm going to be destroyed. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It really, really can be. If you think combat will destroy you, you have only been destroyed. But no macho man. If there's a problem, deal with it. No macho man, no macho guy. There's a problem, deal with how can we help other people if we can't help ourselves? And it really is okay to say I'm not okay. And and we got to understand that you'll come out the other end with post-traumatic growth. And the vast, vast majority of the responders do not commit suicide. The vast, vast majority do not get PTSD. They have post-traumatic growth. But those who treat it, and we're darn good at treating it, they'll come out the other end with post-traumatic growth. Post-traumatic stress is just a step on the way to post-traumatic growth. And I and I talk about how your mind and body is going to respond. And I use a great example, a uh Arkansas State trooper, first gunfight. That guy's down, he's alive, happy in the story. He said, A week later, I'm sitting in the bleachers with my wife, watching our daughter at a swim meet. He started gun goes off when I didn't expect boom, heart pounded, for rare, his wife thought he's having a heart attack. He didn't know what was happening. So if he'd have spent the rest of his life meant this, he'd have said, Oh, I can never go to swim meets. I hate 4th of July, I can't go to the range, I hate loud noises, I gotta go to you will literally drive yourself crazy trying to not think about it. You got to make peace with the memory. Now he pushes around through it. He went out to the range, he pushed the envelope, he pushed itself. But he he had two things where nobody wanted this would happen. Nobody taught him what to do when it happened. And the DSM tells us that all the symptoms of PGSD are normal. It's got to be over 30 days before we say, okay, now we have an abnormal problem. Right. We can't talk about that. All of the symptoms are normal. It's only the last at least 30 days and have clinically significant impairment of some important part of your life. We turn around and say, okay, uh, now we have a disorder and we're going to treat it and come out the other end stronger. The post-traumatic drugs. When we talk about one of the most important things to cover in great detail is sleep. And people don't understand the link between sleep and suicide. Sleep deprivation is a major component in suicide. One major study said not only is sleep a major component, it's the most remediable factor. We can't do much about your relationship, your finances right now. We get your good night's sleep right stinking now. You know, as as as counselors, we've all been taught, first make sure the body's well. If they haven't eaten in a day, all of your therapies go nowhere. You know, have they had sleep? Have they had the body's got to be treated first? And we got to understand that sleep is this foundation of suicide, and it's a key factor in traffic death. Two major killers of our responders, suicide and traffic death. It's a key factor that sleep deprivation creates chronic pain. We're in the middle of a global global epidemic of sleep deprivation. The video games, the cell phones, the text messaging, and watching TV shows. The head of Netflix said their competitor is to get that.

SPEAKER_04 36:31

As firefighters and first responders, we're brilliant at the basics. We master the art of stretching the line and we excel at being there for those who need us most. Yet, even the best of us can be caught off guard. We sometimes face unexpected challenges like injury, cancer, or post-traumatic stress attacks. But you're not alone. The first responders are expected to be able to do it. Remember, we're just talking together. Discover more at firstrespondercenter.org and connect with us on X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. The First Responder Center for Exploits. Equip yourself with experts for every call.

Voiceover 37:35

Can you take that um sleep deprivation uh topic to talk about decision-making, critical decision making, ethical decision making? How does sleep deprivation affect?

SPEAKER_03 37:48

Being sleep-deprived is just like being drunk. You know, after 24 hours without sleep, it's equivalent of 0.10 plot alcohol in pairs your judgment. When you're sleep-deprived, you do things and say things you will regret for the rest of your life. Now I I asked my cops, I trained the American Sheriff's Association, the State Chiefs Association. Look, if a cop showed up roll-called drunk, you'd kick his ass. If he showed up sleep deprived, he's just like being drunk. Oh, we don't care how bad it is, he's drunk, but put him on the streets anyway. I know he's sleep deprived, but put him out there anyway. But tell people that being sleep deprived is just like being drunk.

SPEAKER_07 38:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

And looks, it's better to have no cop than have a bad cop. But bad things happen, no cop's there. Happens all the time. Bad things happen, and a cop makes a stupid decision. Yeah. It's caught on camera. Yeah. And our entire civilization pays the price for it. So sleep deprivation is the one component, the most important component, the most remediable factor in wellness. And it causes chronic pain, and it's a factor in the global epidemic of opiate. Opia deaths. Fentanyl's an opiate. Fentanyl kills what 60, 70, 80,000 people a year. We lost, we lost less than 60,000 in the whole Vietnam War. We lose more than that every year to fentanyl. And it's just one of the opiates that's killing people out there. Why are you trying to crack? Well, sleep deprivation creates chronic pain. And uh doc, I heard all the time. Give me a pill to picture, I need a pill, give me more sleep. You gotta make sure it's quality sleep. And uh and and and and so this sleep dynamic of uh, you know, if if there's just a couple things, you know, I trained a uh a state uh it was East Texas School Safety Conference, all the all the school safety people across a good chunk of Texas. And I thought we were gonna talk about how to keep your school safe from uh uh uh from violence, but I'm betting up you had a murder among your student body. I bet you had suicides, I bet you had trafficking. But you got mental illness. But link between sleep depression and mental illnesses is powerful. And I bet you had drug overdoses. You want to walk out that door and save a kid's life, sleep. What can we do about suicide? Sleep. But what can we do about dropping death? Sleep. What can we do about mental illness sleep? This is the one thing we can nail right now. Children have not been taught. You're teachers, you teach them. And the minimum teaching is number one, the amount of hours that you need at your age. And adults, we need at least seven at least seven hours of sleep. Number two, it needs to be in total darkness. The sleep mask, whatever, just you may not get one more minute of sleep. You have quality sleep. It's good in darkness. And the uh the old sleep mask here is a is a good component. Uh Amazon's what Amazon's favorite is my personal favorite. And and caught off caffeine shortly after lunch. We're in the middle of an epidemic of caffeine abuse. Yes. Caffeine doesn't make you not sleep. Caffeine doesn't want more sleep, it makes you have bad quality sleep. Caffeine makes it easier to stay awake and hardly sleep. Many more factors in the equation, but just those three things. Yeah. The amount of sleep you need, you're age, and you gotta make it happen. And alcohol. Alcohol. But you know, and if you're sleep deprived and drunk, they amplify each other. The combination is tragic. So so you know, it I and a lot of my audience is like a deer in the headlights say this. Look, you know, you if if you come to work drunk an hour or two, you're gonna be bad. If you come to work sleep deprived, an hour or two just be that much worse. And putting them out on the street is a bad thing. Yeah, and staying up all night is a bad thing. I played the video game all night long, dude. It was really cool. The new game's out. That's not funny, that's not acceptable. Kick his ass. Well, you know, metaphorically speaking. Just like you shouldn't work drunk. You play the game all night long, you watch shows all night long. It's just like for sure not to work front. It's unacceptable. Yeah, a lot of people said there's a deer in the headlights because it's you.

SPEAKER_06 42:03

But this is happening, it's happening in every single branch of first responder work, putting people on the road who have not slept in sometimes days.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

Yes. It's almost like again, it's like sending somebody drunk out there. But again, the drunk guy will be better an hour or so. The sleep responder will be just that much worse in an hour or so.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

The modern fire officer. Communicate, motivate, and lead. As officers, we embrace a profound calling, a call to serve with unwavering dedication, to lead with courage, and mentor with heart. In our profession, we are asked to move heaven and hell. We need charismatic leaders with the emotional IQ to motivate their people to execute their training at the highest level. Consider your true family. Serve your family with dedication and lead by disables to inspire them to support each other and achieve greatness together. The foundation of leadership rests on service, sacrifice, self-control, and humility. Never stop learning. From day one, every experience is a continuous journey. Celebrate this extraordinary journey with a commitment to your craft and the deep care you invest in your team. The station officer is where the rubber hits the road. You decide the level of service given. What kind of mark will you leave? The modern fire officer. Communicate, motivate, and lead. Available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and wherever books are sold. Digital, print, and audio format.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

One of the things we've got uh NYPD, I trained the postal police in New York City, and uh and we had a fair number of NYPD officers able to come in. And and a lot of those postal police folks uh said they love the job. They were at the NYPD, they love the job, they love what they're doing. But the one thing they miss, they said every precinct, they've got a dark, quiet place where a cop can catch a nap. They said, with this job, if we sleep on duty, we're fired. But NYPD recognizes overtime and demands, and you go take a take a one-hour nap or take a and and get back out there. And I think that's a recognition of the need, but it's a deeper understanding of why do we even have that need? What's going on? What's causing that?

Voiceover 44:30

Right. And changing the culture of uh the agencies because um you know you're you're a tough guy if you can keep going without sleep, right? And some sometimes it's frowned upon as sleep during a shift, like it's you know, it's a sign of weakness, or it's you're just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

I tell them there's nothing macho, there's nothing tough about going to have sleep. Any 10-year-old girl in slumber probably can do it. The professional thing is to manage your sleep like you manage your money, and and and that's the key. And uh so uh it's it's it's a great idea, make the greatest difference. Let me show you one other thing, though. It kind of in the time remaining, because I talk about uh staying in the zone. We've got condition black, which is total sympathetic nervous system arousal, got condition white, which is total unpreparedness, and we've got the stages in between. Condition yellow, we're gonna live our lives in condition yellow, pop to red, come on down again. If you're in condition white, bad things happen, boom, go straight to panics film. Do not pass code, do not click $100. So I tell them to paraphrase Victor Franco, life is a big game. If you lose your temper, you lose the game. All of our responders understand that. I teach this in the military, some military. I had a colonel who's just so offended. He he ticked off. I tell them, controlling our mind and body is what makes us human. The autonomic nervous system, sympathetic, parasympathetic. I said the first thing we learn is not to crap ourselves. That's an amazing achievement. Everybody train a kid, house train a dog. Learning to control that it's it's autonomic for anybody else that don't control it, you know. But we learn to control that, and and we got to control our temper. If you lose your temper, you lose the game. Yeah, and that's easy to say, but there's first step is understanding. There is never a good time, there's a never appropriate time to crap yourself, and there's never an appropriate time to lose your temper. Like I said, that's easy to say, it didn't so easy to do, but the first step is realize it's not practical. What I tell people, kind of a quick little nugget, is one of the ways to pull you from sympathetic to parasympathetic to fight and fight or flight or or feed and breed, uh, also rest and digest, right? And one way is a big swig of water. Right. Now we're we're all fans of EMDR here, but an intermediate step before the EMDR uh is to take that big swig of water. Yeah, and the sympathetic nerves are kicking off, fight or flight hormones are charging big swig of water. That water says we're safe. Yeah, taking a big swig, deer's being chased by wolves, so I'm gonna drink that break. I'm not being chased by a wolf. But you're not being chased. You can stop. You take that big swig of water, you breathe, you swallow, it hits the stomach, and that says we're safe. It pulls your synthetic to parasympathetic. You begin the process of separation. But uh, there's another model, and that's food. Uh I trained a major spec ops unit in the masses runner as my host, his wife is an emerged room psychiatrist. She had something sweeping through the ER around the planet. You got somebody tearing up your ER, uh who knows, back head, meth head, whatever. You grab a bag of MMs, you rip it over, you shove them in your face. Would you like some MM's? Guy said, I blew it off. Yeah, right, touchy feeling, Ms.

unknown 47:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

This is Spec Os guy, carry the gun off duty, kind of guy you want to. He said, Two different times, I'm off duty with my wife. I think we're gonna have to draw my gun and pipe our lines. Four times, my wife reaches in her purse, grabs a bag of MMs, rips it over, she does guy's face, would you like some MMs? And completely diffuse the situation.

SPEAKER_07 48:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:15

He said, Is still gonna have plant B back here? That's one thing where a pretty girl does it, but there's value in that. And and try to tell people this somebody gives you the finger. You can't control what they do. What's the only thing the universe can control is how you choose to respond.

SPEAKER_07 48:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

And so I have a little baggie full of them. I like putsy rolls, they're individually wrapped, they stay clean, they're good in the heat, they're good in the cold, they remind me of you know Halloween candy.

Voiceover 48:40

They're easy to easy to throw into the other guy's car window, too, right?

SPEAKER_05 48:46

If you look at what you're appealing to is the, you know, you're offering something, right, that is um to sustain them, right? I mean, it's a tutorial, or it's it's not good for you, but that's not the point. You're really communicating with their um limbic system.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

I get a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 49:07

It's just like approaching someone, you know, like like this as opposed to like this, right? It's there's that unconscious, like reading of the autonomic nervous system, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:22

Yes. So one of the things to understand then is uh a cop say many email. Oh no, I'm sorry, he's at a conference. He said, Dave, I was I was eating too many to runs. He said it wasn't healthy, it wasn't good. And so I switched Smarties. He said, This is my little chill pill. So he was like, Yeah, I have a I'm a smarty. Give me a finger, get a smarty. He said, only problem is you can't have just one of these, yeah, you gotta have more. So I drive around smiling and waving till somebody gets the finger, I get another smarty, and that's actual cognitive behavioral therapy, right? Like your thoughts and your actions return what they meant to hurt you, and it's a positive, and and so that's just one little nugget to be able to do. Uh, and and you talk about offering it to them. Uh, a cop and his partner came up to me during a presentation. He said, This story is so wild, I'm bringing my my partner to verify the story. He said, We got a naked guy in the front yard screaming and thrunting. Naked guys usually mean something's wrong, often excited delirium. Uh they're metabolizing things and uh at high rates, their temperature is up, they're not rational. The parents on the porch, oh shooter, kid, go shooter, kitty. What can I do? The cop said, I happen to have a Snickers bar in my hand. Yeah, what the hell? I walked, hey buddy, you want a stickers bar? You want a Snickers bar? Hold Rennet. Would you like the Snickers bar? Follow me up to your room, I'll give it to you. Little room gave a sticker bar, walked away. Wasn't excited to learn, would it work again? But it's the same thing you talked about. Right. It's the very offering food.

SPEAKER_05 51:01

Right. I'm friendly, I'm not the enemy.

SPEAKER_06 51:05

I feed you, yes. Yeah. So there's stuck in fight mode in that moment.

SPEAKER_03 51:12

We talk about fight or flight, and the most common term for parasympathetic is feed and breathe. Um, rest and digest or feed and breathe. The foreps, fight, flight, feed and breathe. The foreps. And uh and uh uh I tell them after a traumatic event, uh the body can be dumping hormones for reproduction. Uh every every organism faced with uh with with uh you know Frank Herbert called the universal human uh universal mode the immortality through pogeny in the face of death. But this those hormones are kicking. And and there's a life and death event, as a responder, you go home, and both you and your partner have very intense sex, and there's nothing wrong with that, and there's not a lot of perks with this game. So if it happens, then you're not weird, there's nothing wrong with you, it's normal. Off duty, wait until you're off duty. So so many cops are blindsided. This physiological so many first responders get in trouble for having sex on duty, and the physiological response is kicking in and blindsides it. So you know about fight or flight, you know, you can't choke them out, you can't punch them out no matter. Oh, the fight or flight hormones kicked in. I couldn't no, we don't find that. But the feed and read hormones kick in. You gotta keep it under control at the appropriate time, and it will still be there, I promise. The appropriate time, the appropriate place. But you're getting blindsided when your body is doing things that nobody warned you about. It happens with victims of traumatic events. It could be a fire, it could be uh it could be an assault, and they have intense sex. I presented to the U.S. Army's uh sexual harassment assault uh uh investigators and counselors. I told them after a traumatic event, after they've been raped, there might be this need for comfort, this this desire for reassurance and comfort. What looks like a pattern of promiscuity can be a normal biological response.

SPEAKER_07 53:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

There's never an excuse, right? If we know what can happen, then we can guard against it.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

So all that explains the uh the need for whorehouses in Vietnam.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

Right. Yeah, you know, the current war has been fought for over 20 years without sex and without alcohol. And uh and we never fought a war like that. And there might have been some negatives that happened out of that. It's a whole different subject, but interesting to talk about.

Voiceover 53:35

Dave, you've covered an incredible amount, and I love the fact you're touching on you know us understanding our hormones and our um how our you know how our brains respond to these traumatic events, and also some simple, really simple, easy tricks and hacks like the uh the smarties and the tootsie rolls. Um, all outstanding. Um, you've delivered a huge amount of information and value, and we appreciate that. So please share with us where can people find you? Are you doing any trainings, any speaking engagements? What would you like people to know? And well, thanks for asking, Dave.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Uh yeah, most of my stuff is you know, kind of uh specific agency, specific circumstance. But um we talk about house of worship safety. And uh we lose more people in and faith-based property than schools every year, uh significantly more than attacks on churches. So before nine people murdered in uh in in uh in uh uh uh me church in in South Carolina, before 26 people murdered in in uh in uh uh church in in Texas, we were teaching church safety and household safety. And it it is business safety, it is life safety, it's all this stuff together. So it's uh we're in Mount Vernon, Illinois, just outside of St. Louis, April 24th to 26th in 2025. And we uh we we go uh Thursday afternoon until Saturday noon. Uh some of the people speaking are the most amazing examples of resiliency. And it's it's you if you're an Illinois police officer, you'll pick up some uh mandatory credit uh for the time. Uh I'm I'm post-certified in Illinois. And uh uh, but anybody who's interested come, see what I'm doing, see the whole picture. There's obviously a faith perspective in here too, and that is one of the pillars in resiliency. And it may not be your cup of tea, but you can harvest what you want from it. And uh, but my website is really most important, it's crossman on truth.com. You know, on killing, on hunting, on spiritual combat, and and crossman.com on truth.com. It's got all my books. You can you can request signed copies, give us feedback, and then very near future we'll be posting a bunch of uh a bunch of uh people's how how what I trained was supplied, uh, these wonderful, wonderful narratives. But right now, the books are there. Uh we got a lot of other things, growthmanontruth.com. Uh, you want to book us? And I just love to be there for everybody. I want to keep doing this. Uh my my wife believes in what we're doing, I believe in what we're doing, and just stay in the fight for another 20 years. The best thanks to more work. So growthmanon truth.com, put me in, coach. I would be honored to be a student.

Voiceover 56:18

All right. Well, we'll put all that up on the screen and share it in our notes. Thank you again. Bonnie Stacy, any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_05 56:25

Well, sir, I just want to thank you. Uh, it was so nice to meet you, and I would love to have you back because I feel like we just touched upon a few major points and there's a lot more to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 56:35

So I would love to be back. Just you know, it's put you in, coach. If I'm not actively traveling or speaking, I want to be on a podcaster. In other words, I mean y'all are doing a really, really good job. Thank you. I followed up on what you're doing, and I would be honored to be back on board. Let's let's let's do it. Put me in, coach. In the meanwhile, God bless you. God bless America.

SPEAKER_06 56:54

You too. It's been a pleasure. We thank you so much for joining us today.

Voiceover 56:59

You guys said it the best. We appreciate you and uh keep doing all this great work, keep going strong. Um, don't let those numbers of age uh slow us down, right? That's uh it's just uh it's just a number.

SPEAKER_03 57:10

Amen. Amen.

Voiceover 57:12

All right, we invite you to like and subscribe, YouTube, respond resilience, Facebook, responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Please go to our website, responderstv.com for past episodes and guest information. Till the next time, stay safe, be kind to yourself. Take care.