6 Steps to STRONG Responder Relationships with Kristal DeSantis, LMFT | S5 E19

SPEAKER_06 0:00

When we talk about sex or we talk about intimacy, are we even on the same page about what we're talking about? You know, just that question of like, is it safe for me to be a human or are people expecting the hero? Because if they want the hero, I know how to do the hero. I could do that all day. Resilience is about being able to adapt and enter into a situation, experience it, and then let it affect you, but not let it shut you down. There's establishing safety as almost like the hero versus being safe on a human level. And that has been something that, like lots of socialization, we don't really encourage men to be human. We love them being heroes.

Voiceover 0:45

Welcome to Responder Resilience, along with Bonnie Romoli, LCSW EMT. I'm David Dashinger. Today we have a special guest, Crystal DeSantis. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist, and she's the author of Strong, a relationship field guide for the modern man. We'll explore unique challenges that first responders and military personnel face in their relationships, and we're going to uncover some essential strategies for building emotional resilience, navigating intimacy under pressure, and fostering mental wellness amidst the demands of our high stress professions. So don't miss this and the practical tools that can help strengthen your connections even in the toughest of times. Remember to like and subscribe, YouTube, Responder Resilience, Facebook, Responder TV, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and go to our website, respondertv.com, for past episodes and guest information. We'll be right back to speak with Crystal after this.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

In this family, more of us die by our own hands and by the hazards of the job.

Voiceover 1:44

In this family, up to a quarter of 911 telecommunicators have symptoms of post-traumatic stress.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

In this family, our mental health and wellness are in high risk, while responders are quietly suffering. In this family, many struggle with job-related stress, burnout, injury, sleep disruption, substance abuse, and relationship problems. In this family, we can't help the helpers.

Voiceover 2:08

With vital information and resources, resilience strategies, and success stories of overcoming the obstacles. Welcome to Responder Resilience. With co-host retired Lieutenant David Dashinger, Dr. Stacey Raymond, and Bonnie Rimley, LTSW, EMT. We want to welcome Crystal DeSantis. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist, and she's the author of Strong, a Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man. And she's a specialist in sex trauma and intimacy. She spent over a decade helping men, women, and couples navigate the complexities of intimacy, communication, and emotional resilience through counseling and therapy. Through her strong model, she provides actionable strategies to foster deeper, more fulfilling relationships. Crystal, welcome to Respond to Resilience.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

Hey, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Voiceover 3:08

Great. It's great to have you. So I'm going to jump off with this question and just ask you about trauma that we experience in our high stress professions. How does that impact relationships and what are the signs that a first responder's personal life may be suffering?

SPEAKER_06 3:26

So, I mean, real kind of broad strokes, right? Um, being exposed to trauma, and trauma is different for everyone, right? An experience, trauma is not the experience, it's your response to the experience, right? And so when we talk about, well, what is the response to the experience? Is you know what I like to talk about often with people is the window of tolerance, right? We all have a window of tolerance for distressing experiences. And in that window, we feel resourced, right? I mean, a distressing event might occur, but we are able to respond appropriately. Um, we and often again part of the work that I do is kind of the link between mind and body. And one of the things we find is that when we have movement through a distressing situation, um, it can help us feel, it can help us process that situation in an appropriate and healthy way. Um, however, sometimes in a traumatic experience, things get stuck, right? Um, or if we have too many without enough time to recover between them, um, it's kind of like working out really hard at too many days in a row, your muscles will start to break down and you'll start to have some problems, right? Um, and so that's really where I see is that when when people have either too many things happening at once without enough recovery time, um, or they've experienced a situation that immediately took them out of their window of tolerance, is what happens is that we then, I mean, that we we get either stuck in hypervigilance, um, which you know, then we're very on alert all the time, we get tense, our bodies are kind of stuck in this bracing mode. Um, and what what happens is, you know, just to kind of narrow it down to what happens then in a relationship, is when we're in protection mode, we're not in connection mode, right? So when our bodies are braced for impact, when we're in alert mode, when we are in self-protection, there is even a physical sense of bracing. It's like if you, I don't know if this, you know, but sometimes I talk about it's like when you walk up to your friend and they kind of play like they're gonna punch you in the gut and your stomach goes, ooh, right? It's like you're you're braced for impact. Um, and when you walk into your home and you're braced for impact, you're not in open connection mode. And so that's often where your temper is shorter, you have less, um, yeah, you just have less patience because your window of tolerance is either small or closed. Right. And so that's often where I see like people being really irritable at home, um, either then seeking for some way to relax, that might be a maladaptive way, drinking, eating, um, smoking, or it just arises with lots of little mini conflicts with their partners, right? Because they're just in this kind of protective mode. Leave me alone. Why are you, why are you bothering me? Go away. Um, which is really, again, as you can see, is very um counterproductive to what people want at the end of their shift is to come home, connect with their families. Their partners are waiting for them, they want to connect back, um, or even just connecting with yourself, right? Like, what did I just experience? Is there any care that I need to give to myself? What would some recovery look like after a tough shift? But when you're stuck in protection mode, you just you can't get there.

Voiceover 6:50

We've talked about that transition from work to home and maybe it's going from threat state to you know a safe place and uh how many of us struggle with that that transition. For thank thank you for shedding the light on that.

Bonnie Rumilly 7:03

Yeah, I think what you're describing is so common, Stacy and I see that all the time as well. And you can also understand where the conflict lies because the responder, rightfully so, sometimes does need space after some of the things that they've just handled, but it's really, really hard for the spouse, too, who's been excited and waiting to see that person for 24 or 48 hours, however long. Um, so you could really feel how on both sides it's hard. I my question for you is um when a first responder recognizes that their relationship is struggling and there are difficulties, what do you think are the first steps that they should take to start repairing it or to attempt to repair it?

SPEAKER_06 7:44

I mean, first thing is, you know, if you can get help, you can talk to peer support, you can, you know, um find a mental health professional, because I think that's something that I always just want to emphasize is there are there are resources, there is help out there. You don't have to do it all yourself, right? Um it, you know, sometimes uh I've heard described of like, well, you know, me and my wife, we just got into this big tangle, um, and we we've been trying to untangle it ourselves. Um, but you know, it's kind of like if if you know, call the electrician to untangle this big ball of wires, the the ball of wires can't untangle itself, right? And so just kind of recognizing that sometimes calling in a professional or asking for outside support can be the bravest and the most effective thing that you can do for your family. Because also, you know, again, like we're talking about first responder trauma, but you know, there are a lot of people out there that might just be civilians that have their own trauma, right? And so, you know, we're saying that, okay, the partner may be in connection mode, but not always, right? Maybe there's been ongoing conflict in the relationship. And so, you know, what ends up happening is you know, trauma comes home and bumps back up against trauma. And that's where you know, this cycle of how come we can't get back to, you know, where we used to be connected and we used to be happy to see each other. It's like, well, you know, maybe over the years you've just both built up and you're just stuck in protection mode, and now we've just got trauma bumping up against trauma. And again, it's like you know, the wires can't untangle themselves. At that point, getting somebody else to come in and do some trauma therapy for the two of you is probably going to be the most effective and you know, most uh healing thing that you could do for yourself and your family.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

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Voiceover 10:32

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you know first responder professions offer unlimited opportunity to um be busy, right? To take tons of overtime to get involved with you know the union, to go out drinking with the guys, whatever it is, we can really take down on as a full-time overtime um endeavor, and maybe that's you know a way to avoid getting uh being intimate with our spouse, our partner. Why do you think um so many first responders struggle with that emotional intimacy and and then how can they reconnect um without feeling weak or exposed?

SPEAKER_06 11:09

Yeah, and this is a really um like really fun conversation for me. Because, you know, I mean, okay, there are people of all genders in the first responder professions. However, um, you know, there is a very masculine aspect to the profession. And one of the things that, you know, is part of the um passion that I have in this work is like understanding the masculine mindset. Um and one of the things, and this is part of why when I wrote my book, it's called Strong, and it's a breakdown of the different pillars of a healthy relationship. But the first thing is safety, and that was something that I, you know, was trying to understand, especially when it came to first responders, right? It's like your whole job is safety, right? This is what you do. You are, you know, establishing safety in in your communities in the world. Um, however, there's establishing safety as almost like the hero versus being safe on a human level. And that has been something that, you know, again, just like lots of socialization, we don't really encourage men to be human. We love them being heroes. And so that's something as well that I see that, you know, yes, you know, just in the world, but absolutely in the first responder community, right? It's like showing up as the hero, everybody loves to see them coming, right? But when you show up as the human, sometimes that's a little bit, it can be a little bit less, you can be a little bit less confident of how that's going to be received, right? Like, is it safe for me to be human? Um, and so that's that's sometimes where I see is that you know, just that question of like, is it safe for me to be a human or are people expecting the hero? Because if they want the hero, I know how to do the hero. I can do that all day, right? I can surround myself with other guys, we can keep talking about you know all these calls. Um and and I think that like that shift has been tough. I mean, people go where they feel good. Um for anybody, it's tough to put yourself in a position where you feel awkward, like a beginner, um, you feel unsure. And especially in a field that values competence and confidence, it really is a big ass to say, why don't you go somewhere that you feel like completely out of sort? Like, I don't know, take a ballet class, right? Like an emotional ballet class. And so I think this is part of also our work as clinicians and as you know, people that are passionate about uh first responder communities is how can we create safe spaces where the norm is we be safe, we be human together. The heroes get left outside the door, you can pick up your suit on the way out, um, but in here we want you to feel safe as a human.

Voiceover 14:06

Yeah, it's a it's a long way from um having the armor to uh being vulnerable, right? It's a big transition.

Bonnie Rumilly 14:13

It's also interesting because I know how I would answer the question that you just answered. And there's another phenomenon that I've observed, which is that some first responders, male or female, by the way, um feel like they have that pressure at home to be everyone's savior all the time. And I know there's a a visceral reaction to that word hero, so I'm cautious about it, but I think um there's an immense pressure that families and spouses I see sometimes um that that person has to hold everything together. So because that person's role is so important, and because first responders have a wide bandwidth and they can handle so much, it becomes the norm in the family. And so it's really hard to be human and to make mistakes or to not be able to tend to everyone in your family or fix your wife's problems as well. Um, I think it puts another pressure on them because and not every single one, but I'm seeing this in a lot of them. You know, they don't have anywhere in their life where they don't have to be the savior. Um, and that's not healthy for anybody, you know. So to your point, you're you kind of made a joke of you know, emotional ballet, but I think that's part of the reason why first responders don't branch out of this world that often because how could they feel safe anywhere else? Sometimes they don't even feel safe where they are.

SPEAKER_06 15:37

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, this is obviously a lot of people in relationships struggle with this, right? Is how do we create safety? Um, and one of my passions is like again, understanding kind of the masculine mindset, and that is something of, you know, just as a man being a protector, right, being the provider, being the rock, being the one that people can rely on. Um, so you know, that is something that happens sometimes in the socialization of the person even before they enter into a helping profession, right? And so that underlying, I guess, expectation that regardless of what profession you end up going into, as a man, your job is to be the protector and the provider. Um, and then also women are socialized to expect that sometimes from their partners. Um, and so it becomes this double bind of well, at what point do I get to um just show up as me and maybe show that I don't have it all together and I need some support. Um, and who who protects me emotionally?

Voiceover 16:50

So I'd like to circle that back to your book um in the strong model. Um you talk a little bit about that and how does that help men to build better relationships, like healthier relationships?

SPEAKER_06 17:02

Yeah, so one thing I found, especially also working with men, working with first responders, working with high-achieving individuals, um, is you know, having actionable items and actionable steps is really helpful, right? Because often, too, I heard some pushback of like, okay, what is therapy for you? Talk about your problems, like how does that help? Is there a fix? Um, and so that's really where I wanted to say, okay, well, first of all, let me do the research and break down like what does it actually mean to have a healthy relationship, right? Because you know, if you pull people, people you know have all kinds of different answers, but what does the research say? What does the science say? Um, and can I can I create some kind of blueprint? Because everybody out there wants to have a healthy relationship. Everybody wants to have fulfilling relationships, right? Nobody gets married and they're like, let's just see how this goes, right? Everybody wants to have the one that goes the distance. Um, and often it's, I mean, again, it's very discouraging, it's very confusing when they're like, we had so much love, we had so much connection. Why are we at the place that we're at now? Um, and you know, what I found is like, well, where's the map? Where's the guide? Right? We're just kind of falling in love and hoping it sticks. And you know, I just thought that was not very efficient. So I did the research, and the first thing I found was so first of all, I was able to, you know, put it into a little acronym. So strong is an acronym of the six pillars of a healthy relationship. And you know, again, with the first responder community, one thing I found is that you know, safety, being the protectors, being the providers, safety was such a huge thing. Um, and luckily the the research backs it up is that safety is the foundational core of any healthy relationship. But again, safety is a huge big word. What does that even mean? So in my book and in my practice, I've broken it down to four S's. So the four S's of safety. So when I talk about what are the skills to create safety at home, which again, I'm, you know, I'm not a first responder. My husband is that guy. Like, he's the captain. I'm just at home doing the therapy thing. Um, so you know, he can talk about fire safety. I can talk about relational safety. Um, so relational safety, it really starts with these kind of four S's. So the first one is self-awareness, right? Which then starts with that first responder saying, like, am I being affected by what I witnessed today? What am I bringing home? Right. That self-awareness of what is going to be the impact on my family when I walk in the door. Right. And also for the partner, right? The self-awareness of like, am I exhausted, can't wait for my husband to come home so I can hand him the baby, or I can't, you know, and like that self-awareness of how how can we work together to co-create a safe reunification for both of us? Right. What do we both need right at that trade off, right? That self awareness. The second piece is stability, which again, being a first responder family, I mean, sometimes. I mean the stability looks very different than other families, right? It's like you're not necessarily home every night. Sometimes you're on a 48. Sometimes you've got this, you know, shift schedule, sometimes you're on call. And so really figuring out what do we need to feel stable, especially if there are kids involved, especially if like where is our support system? How do we create stability as a family so that we can again feel safe? That we have a stable routine, we have a stable environment, even though our lives look different than everybody else's, we have stability. And then the the last two things are really kind of what I see drives the most conflict and communication issues, which is self-regulation and then self-expression. All right. So these last two S's of safety are, you know, self-regulation. Again, if you do recognize that, gosh, you know, I'm I'm running on empty, I'm running on fumes here, and I'm like not doing well. How do you self-regulate? Right? Is it reaching for the alcohol? Is it smoking? Is it disconnecting? Or is are there healthier ways that you can self-regulate so that you can also co-regulate? Right? It's like when you're upset and you're dysregulated, you cannot be a safe and calming, stable presence for your family. You cannot provide safety for your family if you're the chaos, right? And so that piece of the self-regulation, also, again, there's lots of skills, right? Grounding, you know, box breathing, all the things, self-care, exercise, like all of the things that, you know, honestly are just healthy to do in every aspect. Um, and then the self-expression, which is, you know, if you do have something emotional coming up, how do you talk about it? How is the safe way to bring it up? Because often what I saw with the self-expression piece, without the language to talk about it safely, the message gets lost in the delivery, right? It becomes accusatory, it becomes blaming, or it just gets it becomes shut down, right? It's like when the partner is like, hey, how are you feeling? Fine. Well, it seems like you're not fine. I'm good. Like, oh, okay. So, right. And so if you don't have the language, and so that is just again, you know, I've got my emotion wheel in my office, and I'm like, here, if we can't find the words, spin the wheel. So sometimes self-expression is simply just about expanding your vocabulary, but also then co-creating a space with your partner where you can say, How can we talk about maybe some high stakes or uncomfortable topics in a way that feels safe and it doesn't feel like we're just throwing our emotions at each other, right? Because nobody wants that. Um, so again, just breaking down like what is safety, at least when it comes to a relationship, it's these four things: self-awareness, stability, self-regulation, and self-expression. If you can bring that to the table, you can make your home feel safe.

SPEAKER_07 22:55

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Bonnie Rumilly 23:57

I love the acronyms. It's very clever how you put everything together. And I I was having a chuckle to myself when you're saying let's expand the vocabulary and that whole interaction of fine, I'm fine. I mean, how many times do we hear that in our office? Um, even when we ask, how are you doing today? How was your week? Fine. Okay. So tell me what really happened this week. Um, and that leads me into my next question for you. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on emotional resilience versus emotional shutdown.

SPEAKER_06 24:32

So it's it's it's the difference between having a restful night's sleep and being passed out, right? So one is you're disconnected, you're shut down, you're not con you're not experiencing your emotions. Um, you're just overwhelmed by them. So you end up in this kind of numb state, right? Yeah so again, I mean, and the reason I use that analogy is because I think everybody knows the difference between a restful night's sleep versus just being passed out, right? One is restorative, um, and one is you're just disconnected, you're just not there, right? And so emotional resilience is I'm I'm here, I can handle hearing, I can handle giving. Um, and it's also kind of that it's something that you can practice and you can get better with time. Often I think the the misunderstanding, and I think sometimes people throw around the word like stoicism, um, where it's like it's resilience is about being able to adapt and enter into a situation, experience it, and then let it affect you, but not let it shut you down. Right. Um so I think that's yeah, maybe on a very simple way. It's like, are you experiencing it or are you moving through it disconnected?

Bonnie Rumilly 25:54

Well, and I think you bring up a good point because so much of what we talk about with first responders and their adverse childhood experiences and how that impacts them, a lot of them had to shut down to survive their situation. Um, or they've just learned it as the easy way now to not feel all these things that are piling up on top of them. So it's such an interesting topic.

SPEAKER_06 26:19

Absolutely. And I I always want to um validate that this is an adaptive survival skill, right? Our brains are good at turning off information that it thinks will hurt us, right? And so I I always want to validate, like, especially if you had, you know, grown up in a home where there was lots of chaos or there was abuse or there was neglect, like turning off was your brain's way of saying, like, we will get you through this, you will survive. And this is how we're gonna help you do it, is we're gonna numb you out, right? I mean, this is how calluses develop, right? It's like you've got these emotional calluses that develop to keep you from being just raw all the time, right? Yeah, but sometimes then it's like I don't know, you know, like my husband with his callloused hands, he touches me on like, oh, it's not the intention was nice, but that's kind of stretchy, you know? And so that's a thing again, it's like if you've got all these emotional calluses, you might want to be close to your partner, you might try to be gentle and loving to them, but that's not how it's being experienced because there's so much like callus that's been built up. Right. And again, just recognizing like it's very adaptive, that was not a bad thing. It doesn't mean you're broken. It just means that you know you've got a lot of scar tissue or a lot of calluses that have built up because of the situations that you've been in. Um, and how do we how do we figure out a way to get through some of that? Um, but not in a way that feels like, all right, my only option then is to be completely raw and vulnerable again. It's like, yeah, there's a middle, right? Um, so yeah, that's a lot of emotional resilience work is stay let's stay away from the either ends of like I feel everything and it hurts. I feel nothing and I feel great to the middle of I can feel things. Sometimes they hurt, but they're telling me useful information that connects me to my partner, um, connects me to myself, and helps me get stronger emotionally.

Bonnie Rumilly 28:17

Well, it's a great way to describe everything. Um, something that I find resonates with most first responders is the concept of a wave, right? Allowing yourself to see the wave coming, jump up if you have to, so that it doesn't get in your nose and mouth and let it pass. And I think emotions are so much like that, and it's something that they can tangibly hold on to. Um, so that's a go-to for me when I'm teaching that strategy.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

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Voiceover 29:53

As we're speaking about relationships, and I know it's easy for first responders to kind of go off the rails sometimes when we're dealing with trauma and stress, and sometimes engage in behaviors that are not healthy for the relationship for sure. Um, sometimes we lose trust and we certainly can get distant and and kind of lose that connection with our loved one, our spouse, our partner. How can first responders and their partners kind of rebuild after that prolonged period of stress and emotional withdrawal?

SPEAKER_06 30:25

First of all, I mean, it is very possible, right? I've seen it. Um it does require both people to give each other another chance to become a different person. Um, I think that's one of the challenges sometimes, right? Is that especially if we've been exposed to trauma, like our our internal alert systems are very aware of like, okay, but here's the pattern. It's been like that. Why would I think it would change? Um, so that's you know, that's often the biggest hurdle is giving prom, you know, giving each other the grace of saying, I'm going to allow you the chance to show up as a different person, and I would like to ask for that chance as well. Um, and then what do we do with that chance, right? What do we do with that grace? And how do we then hold ourselves accountable to show up differently? Um, and that's really where you know this couple's work is you know, working together to make sure that we're building a totally new marriage, building a totally new relationship, um, in which you get to be a different version of yourself, right? And so I always like to, you know, talk about that. Like, you know, if you didn't like the version of yourself before, hey, guess what? Life is long, brains can change, right? Um, because also, you know, like you said, these these um like kind of mal, I guess, maladaptive behaviors, whether it's drinking too much, whether it's you know, disconnecting, often I use the kind of gebor mate model of like these are pain-relieving behaviors. So let's look at why are you in so much pain? Right? It's like if someone's downing a bottle of Advil every day, it's it you're like, well, clearly you're trying to make some kind of pain go away. Um, so let's let's look at what's the pain and are you do you want to be, do you want to have a different script?

Voiceover 32:27

Yeah, it's like the I think the question he he asks is what problem are you trying to solve by by doing whatever you're doing.

SPEAKER_06 32:34

Yeah, exactly. Instead of just thinking about the symptom reduction, right? Let's go down to the why is this thing even here? What is the pain that you're trying to resolve? What is the problem you're trying to solve? And is there a better way? Right? Because that's often it, you know, people go to what they know, what they saw, maybe they saw their parents do it. Um, you know, we repeat what we know until we learn something different. And so that's also what I always want to say is, you know, give yourself a chance, you know. Like there are so many people I see that come into couples therapy, and they're like, Okay, we're you know, at the end of our rope. And I'm like, what have you tried? And they're like, Well, we've tried nothing. And it's like, okay, well, give yourself a chance, like, you know, um, so and it's through things like this, right? Letting people know that there are resources out there, there are tools, you do not have to continue to exist in pain.

Voiceover 33:29

Um, you know, suffering is optional.

SPEAKER_06 33:32

Absolutely.

unknown 33:34

Exactly. There you go.

Bonnie Rumilly 33:36

You know, in thinking about first responder couples in particular, um, the topic of intimacy comes to mind and definitely comes up in in the office with us quite often. Um, I was wondering, what do you observe in the way of intimacy and first responder relationships? Um, some of the common themes, threads, and maybe how some of those things could be looked at or addressed.

SPEAKER_06 34:01

Um, yeah. So I think just, I mean, from a physiological standpoint, sometimes being in a high adrenaline environment can ramp your libido way, way up. Um and sometimes sex can be used as a way to self-regulate or co-regulate as well, right? If you're stuck in a stressed-out space. And so sometimes I see that, you know, maybe for example, one person is using sex as a regulator or using sex in a way that's kind of body first, and then the other person is looking at sex as a way to create intimacy or a way to get connection. And so sometimes that's I mean, that's usually the first thing is like when we talk about sex or we talk about intimacy, are we even on the same page about what we're talking about? Right? Is it libido-based? Is it desire-based? Is it intimacy-based? Like, where are we coming at this? Because that's often what I see is one person is coming at it like, hey, this is just an itch, I need to scratch. Like, and I need it, I need it to feel close to you. And the other person is like, well, I'm hoping to create more of an intimate experience. And it doesn't feel intimate when you're approaching it like an itch, you need to scratch, right? And so I I think really just saying, like, there's no wrong way to have intimacy. I mean, well, yes, there is, but we're not gonna talk about that, right? Um, but at least with a couple, making sure that you're on the same, in the same experience at the same time, right? And so it's like, yeah, if you're wanting to go libido first, where it's kind of and I talk about it like food, right? It's like you want the drive-thru experience, you just need, you know, a quick like just need a burger right now, it's like, yeah, let's go to the drive-thru. But if your partner's like, I thought we were going out on a date to a nice restaurant and you took me to the drive-thru, like you can see how the expectations are gonna be really mismatched there, right? And same thing. If you're like, all right, let's go to this nice dinner, and we sit down, and one person's just like, I'm just so I'm just starving. I'm starving. Like, I hate all of this. Like, we're waiting 20 minutes for our waters. Like, I hate this, right? And so again, just making sure that you're in agreement of like what experience you're trying to create at the same time, um, and then having those conversations, because that's another piece, like as a sex therapist. I mean, so many people don't even have the language to have these conversations about what they like, what they don't like, what they're looking for. Um, and so again, just co-creating pleasurable experiences that you can both desire. Um, and that's the thing, feeling desired, feeling wanted at the end of the day, um, is where most people were there like this is what intimacy feels like, whether or not we're, you know, how many like we're not keeping a scoreboard, but I feel wanted, I feel desired, I feel like my partner cares about me in that way. Um, they care about hearing about my experience, they care about my pleasure in the experience. Um, and that's where people start to feel like, okay, our our intimacy is back on track.

Bonnie Rumilly 37:08

You know what's interesting, the one more thing I wanted to point out, and I know we've discussed it very, very briefly on the podcast in the past, but it seems totally appropriate to bring it up in this space is um the sexual abuse history of a lot of our first responders, particularly law enforcement. And it makes me wonder, you know, in my own work, but also makes me just wonder generally how much that impacts the ability for emotional safety, emotional security, which also leads to the intimacy piece. Um, I wondered if you had any thoughts on that topic. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a big, big, big topic.

SPEAKER_06 37:52

Um, but you know, one thing that happens with child sexual abuse is that your sense of safety and autonomy over your own body is violated.

unknown 38:04

Right.

SPEAKER_06 38:04

Um, and so I think that's often with the work that I do in that sphere is coming back to how can you even feel safe in your own body and stay connected to your own body and your own sense of agency while you are having sex now. Because again, you know, having uh being being sexually abused or you know, being abused as a child as a child, it basically sends the message that you know your needs, your autonomy, what what is comfortable or good for you does not matter. Um, and so it does really reinforce kind of a disembodied experience, like you are you are just performing now, you as a person is not being honored. Um, and so really kind of healing that connection of like, do you feel seen as a person during intimacy now, or do you still feel like you have to show up with your performance? Um, and that often, again, is uh is a really important um like avenue for healing.

Bonnie Rumilly 39:08

Well, you could see that trigger point too in a couple where one person has the itch and they want the drive-through, and the other person it's a really complicated preparation to be in that kind of a space with another person. So um thank you for talking about it. It's it's something, it's a very difficult topic, I know, for a lot of people to hear. Um, but it is more common than I think any of us really want to be reporting on. I think just how pervasive uh this is in our population. So really thank you for sharing those points.

SPEAKER_06 39:40

Yeah, and I think that's also important. I think, you know, like you just said, how pervasive it is. I think some of the statistics that are more that are well known is like one in four women, but I think the statistics that are not as well known is like one in five boys and men, right? And so I I think also sometimes having that awareness. for the for partners, right? It's like if there's any kind of resistance or any kind of disconnect when it comes to sexual intimacy, like making sure that we're going back to is there a history here that might be informing why your body is in protection mode rather than connection mode.

SPEAKER_05 40:20

Right.

Voiceover 40:21

Thank you for all the things we've covered today. I think they've all been incredibly important topics and some of which we haven't really talked about before. So appreciate that, Crystal, and please share with us where people can find you, your book, any other um contacts or social media places or projects you have going on.

SPEAKER_06 40:40

Yeah. So I'm based in Austin, Texas. So if you're in the area, feel free to reach out to me. But otherwise my website is just strong.love um I I have my book. It is on my website but it's also on Amazon. It's also on Audible because you know my my husband is first responder. He's like but I'll listen to it. He drives you know he drives to work. I know lots of first responders do a lot of driving so it is on Audible. But also if you get it on Audible I'd also have a little mini toolkit that goes along with the book that you can download for free on my website. So it's yeah again Storm about love. I'm on Instagram ATX Therapist because I'm in Austin, Texas. But yeah, that's where I'm at.

Bonnie Rumilly 41:28

It was great meeting you and talking to you and you're such a great resource. I could definitely see us wanting to have you on for part two one day. Well thank you. Yeah thank you.

SPEAKER_06 41:39

Thank you for the work that y'all do. I mean this is so important.

Bonnie Rumilly 41:42

You're welcome.

Voiceover 41:43

Thank you and part of it is uh the collaborative effort of guests like you who are um you know willing to make the time and um and share with their expertise is so we we really value that so thank you so much for sharing that with us today. Remember to like and subscribe YouTube responder resilience Facebook responder TV Apple Podcasts Spotify LinkedIn go to our website respondertv.com for past episodes and guest information until the next time stay safe be kind to yourself take care of it might when you might have to